Trish  0:09  
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Steve  1:00  
Welcome to the AT WORK IN AMERICA show. My name is Steve Boese. I am with Trish Steed. Trish, hello. How are you?

Trish  1:06  
I'm fantastic. How are you? 

Steve  1:08  
I am well. We've been doing a lot of recording lately. I've been seeing you a lot, which is great; good way to start the year.

Trish  1:15  
I miss you when we're not recording like through the holidays. So yeah, it's good to be back. We're like, every couple days recording. It's perfect.

Steve  1:23  
Yeah, it's good stuff. And honestly, today, Trish, I think I'm more excited about today's show than anything we've done in a while, right? We have, at H3 HR, done a couple of really big reports, and one of the things we talk about a lot, including on our new 2026 report, is caregiving, the importance of employers supporting employee caregiving, how caregiving is like turning into such an important issue in the workforce. And so we had a chance to talk about it today on the show with our guest, Dave Jacobs. And I'm, I can't tell you how excited I am, Trish.

Trish  1:58  
I know I am personally as well. So just from an HR perspective, it was always important to me, but yeah, just this past summer, a family member had a very serious medical emergency, and so it's difficult. We know firsthand, right? You had to cover for me. We've covered for each other at various times of our careers. So yeah, it's a big deal when someone needs caregiving, whether young or old.

Steve  2:22  
Let's formally welcome Dave Jacobs to the show. Dave is the co founder and co CEO at HomeThrive and Dave, welcome. Thank you for taking some time today. And first question, how tell us a little bit about you, of course. And then, man, I know you're as passionate, probably more passionate, even than us. What took you to this man? You could have founded anything I get the feeling and caregiving was what was a calling for you. I'd love to learn that story.

Dave Jacobs  2:49  
I'll give you just a quick background, and it very much is related to kind of my caregiving journey like it is for many people you know, married for 25 years. I have two now, college age kids who factor into the caregiving story. You know, it was very close to my parents, have a brother and all those types of things, and then my father got really sick really quickly. This is about 10 years ago. I was a senior executive at a healthcare company, and I knew a lot about kind of the healthcare system, and we have a close family and the means to support my parents and my brother and I are engaged, and my dad got cancer. He wanted to be at home with my mom in Connecticut, where I grew up. My brother and I are both in Chicago. It is like a ton of bricks. You know, despite all the things that should have made it a little bit easier for us, it was very difficult. He had great medical care, but all the caregiving, things that we never could have anticipated, the navigation, the questions, the work that has to be done during the day. We everything was a new experience for us, and it was really challenging family issues, you name it, and it was very important. I mean, it's very important. He's our father. He wants to be at home. We want to be supportive of him and my mom and I felt like through that experience, we had to be a better way. I was. I gained 25 pounds in six weeks, which is very unusual for me. My wife suggested, you Wow, yeah, no, it's not easy, but when you don't take care of yourself and you're flying back and forth to Connecticut, and suddenly your eating habits change. You know, my nuclear family relations were strained, and I didn't know how to deal with that, and my wife suggested a leave of absence. I frankly, I knew what that was, but I had no idea what that would be, how to manifest itself, and thought there had to be a better way, and was looking to do something that really made more of an impact. I had a good friend who went through something similar. So we decided to quit our cushy corporate job and really take on the challenge of, how do you bring kind of caregiver support to large numbers of people. There's always like, boutique things that could help friends and other people, but nothing that could really serve people at a large scale. And that's really kind of what we started doing seven and a half years ago. And we're very excited that that the topic has gotten more broad recognition and awareness, and that we've been able to evolve and to a point where we can actually make it available over time. Our goal is to be able to make it available to millions of caregivers, to be able to support them through that journey.

Trish  5:08  
Gosh, it really hits home when you're talking about you, you're sort of thrust into a situation, and there should be more resources. And you really, even if you think you know, right, I've worked in healthcare, you've worked on health, you just, you don't know, right? And also, I think I would just add I've never really considered the physical impacts as well as the mental on the caregiver. So you mentioned that specifically been, you know, in your own weight journey, right through this, in terms of Homethrive, first, walk us through what is Homethrive. What are you all doing? And then back into how does that then have impacts on some of those other aspects of being a caregiver?

Dave Jacobs  5:52  
Yeah, no, I appreciate the question. It's so what we're doing is we are doing expert coaching, navigation and concierge services to help people with all the dimensions of caregiving, and I should define it, you know, we there's a tendency, understandably, to talk a little more about supporting older adults. But, you know, caregiving, we think of it as the high chair to the rocking chair and beyond. And beyond is after somebody passed away, and all the work and things and challenges that come of that. But you know, in the early stages, you've got child care and backup care, which people are more familiar with. But what's getting more I think notoriety and awareness is neuro diversity, which is everything from add to autism. I mentioned my college age kids, they both have different forms of ADD or ADHD, and going through that journey, God bless my wife, was able, you know, to figure out, how do you get them assessed? How do you navigate the school system to get accommodations, and how do you navigate as things change, because it's different by way, in different counties or even different school systems. And then as the kids age and they get to high school, changes and they get to college, they turn 18, and so all these things, you need real help and guidance on what to do. And so we help through that entire journey. For people could be adults who have themselves or spouses with different diseases or disabilities, and certainly older adults, and you think about Senior Living and in home care and navigating insurance and what's covered and what's not, what's the right plan, all of those things, and then all the way through planning for end of life, and then once somebody passes away, which is part of the journey that we all go through. And you know, there's 600 hours of work of stuff, everything from the DMV, if you had a lease vehicle, you got to clean out a house to figure out what do you have to do, and who can help me with that? And we really want to be somebody who can help, to coach and advise, but also help do things, to take as much of that work, worry and stress off somebody's plate. We can't we don't have the fountain of youth, and we can't turn back the clock. But we can help people, even as you mentioned, Trish, there are resources that can be available. They're just hard to find. How do you qualify, right? And we can help, kind of basically untangle that maze and puzzle and make it easier for people.

Trish  7:56  
We need you on speed dial, Dave.

Dave Jacobs  8:00  
We have a whole team of people who who do this, and they're, they're doing the great work, but it's, that's really and the way we do it, we evolve. We started, like a lot of people, you have a whole bunch of social workers who are fantastic, and they help people. But the challenge is, there's 63, million unpaid family caregivers out there. It's three quarters of workforce, actually, that are in some form, and you can't people just doesn't work for a variety of reasons. It doesn't scale, right? It's and people. What's interesting is people don't want to talk to somebody unless it's an emergency. But there's a lot of things in this process that are important, but could be you know, my mom, my mother in law, is coming to visit us, and she can't get along very well. We need a wheelchair for take her so my wife can take her to the mall. What do you get right? You don't actually want to talk like so we basically developed a digital component that really is the lead of what we do. We've taken the magic of our social workers and put in the palm of somebody's hands, so it's made it much more accessible, so we get people earlier and more often, because they can do it whenever they want, however they want it. And I'm not sure, maybe someday in the future, as the success grows, that'll be the plan all along. That really wasn't the plan. We discovered that our utilization went up. We still have people who get assigned to a family for the more intense situations, but we've been able to get the utilization up dramatically, and we can get the cost down, because that is a reality. We sell to insurance companies and employers and work with partners who are going to employers, and cost matters, and you know, to be able to deliver a high impact service with a much lower cost than when we, like other people, do with people, can is a win for everybody.

Steve  9:31  
Dave, you mentioned a couple numbers. You mentioned 65 million folks caregiving, providing caregiving in the United States, about three quarters of the workforce. And I think it's great to talk about those numbers, because I feel like we don't recognize the sheer scale of this, right? Because employers, for a while now, have really gotten more progressive and expansive in terms of their benefit offerings, but yet this one particularly, I feel like, is a little bit slower to come forward, right? And part of it is maybe just this idea of, hey, that's your personal thing, that's your life. That's got nothing to do with work. But yet, we've kind of crossed that out for things like mental health support, financial well being and wellness, and all the tools that are available in that. So I think it's only sensible and actually important, right, that that we think more broadly about supporting employees through these journeys. So I'd love for you to talk about that when you're when you're having conversations, or either with companies who've come on board or ones that are who want to get on board, right? I imagine there's a lot of HR people listening to this show right now. So yeah, so I know caregiving is important in our organization, but yet I've got to get our executive team on board as well. What are, what are some of the things you like to talk about to help facilitate that?

Dave Jacobs  10:51  
Yeah, that's a great point, and that is a reality. It's hard argue that there's not. It's not generally important. But how do you make it and especially in a challenging environment today, right? Healthcare costs are going up. Teams are certainly not getting bigger, both in the HR department other places. And those are realities. And actually, caregiving helps to address a lot of those things. So in a variety, people are spending, you touched on it, Steve, they're spending. They can be spending 20 to 3020, hours a week on caregiving stuff. It could be making doctor's appointments. It could be picking people up. They don't advertise it, but they are doing it, and it's almost all during the day. You can't do these things. Can't call your doctor's office or your mom's doctor's office at night. You just don't right. So it's during the day. So in an era where organizations are not expanding their ranks that much, they need to make the people who are there, frankly, be more productive and feel more valued. And addressing kind of caregiving needs is one way to do that, to get more productivity from people that you really need that and to kind of invest in the people you have. So that's one thing that is kind of very important. It also can align very much to other organizational objectives. And so that's where we've seen you have HR leaders who they recognize the importance and the organization usually sees, inherently, a value in supporting employees, but it's supporting other big initiatives that a senior executive, whether it's the CFO or another financial stakeholder or a COO they're going to care, could be returned to the office. You know, return to the office is impaired. People have caregiving issues, whether it's childcare backup, that's really kind of an issue, kind of for them, if they're trying to kind of find ways to grow or attract different talent in the technology realm, you know, AI and all those other areas are growing, and they're competing for a lot of that talent. I've been surprised by how many people in their late 20s and 30s who are at we have a good number of tech companies have caregiving challenges. They could be their children. A lot of times they're their grandparents or their parents with early onset diseases and disabilities. And these people have flexibility, and so finding ways to attract them and keep them in ways that they feel like they're investing in the person is very kind of important in that kind of process. So connecting it to the organizational priorities and the way they think about their economics, and also, kind of, you know, the presenteeism and reducing. It's the number two reason people are leaving the workforce, because they, they got to deal with this. There was a recently, the PGA of America, the CEO in there one year, just resigned, he said. And to his credit, he was very he said, I've got to leave Florida. My mother and mother in law are in upstate New York, and they need help, and I can't do that from here, and I can't do the job. Here's somebody you think would have the resources, right? It's not financially a challenge. He could do it, but he said, and it's, it's my parents, there's just and so that will have happening to him. You could imagine what's happening to a more of a rank and file. Rank and file kind of group, and it doesn't the cost, especially the way we're doing it has gotten low enough and the impact is high enough that it's not a Herculean investment.

Trish  13:52  
Yeah, to me, it makes sense too. I mean, just even thinking about it as a journey, right? We were, we use that word a lot when it comes to how we manage our people, right? It's your career journey, but we sort of boil it down more to, like, generational differences, really, it's not, it's also this continuum. So I'm glad you mentioned that it's sort of like, you know, from the high chair to the wheelchair, right? It's sort of that whole thing. The other thing that really catches my attention, and I don't think I've thought of it quite the it quite this way, but when I think about my own experience, it was this way. When you have children that might be high school, college age, also are helping with this caregiving. It is not just, you know, someone who's maybe reached a leadership role, who's trying to figure, how do I do this? It is a whole family approach. And when I think back to being an HR leader, this was a, this has been a problem, right? This has been an opportunity we needed to to address, because people would come to me in HR and say, you know, my mother has cancer, my father has cancer, or whatever, and we didn't have all. We had was EAP to put them to or. For our own personal knowledge, maybe, but so I think, too, when you, when you really think about looking at the cost for someone, maybe more junior career, all the way to your senior leadership, CEO, right? What is the cost of them not being there? You should want to do everything possible. It makes financial sense, right? To not people leaving all throughout their career journey, right?

Dave Jacobs  15:26  
But even if you were to the way we would look at it is because there are people who need, and understandably, a financial justification is, if you can an organization, let's say 1000 people, just to make it easy, if you get three people to not leave their job because of a caregiving challenge, and you know, you have some conservative estimates about what the cost to replace them is, this will pay for itself, plus all the other benefits of the people being on the job a little more often, you don't have the residual effect of their colleagues having to cover their slack all the things that can happen. So it doesn't take a lot to be able to do it, to be able to kind of cost, justify it in the kind of in this environment the way things have evolved.

Trish  16:08  
Is that something you help your client, your clients with, then making that sort of business case to justify that to senior leadership?

Dave Jacobs  16:16  
Yeah, we try to really help them. We understand what the priorities are, what are the kind of because that, you know, the senior leaders are thinking about their big initiatives and their big objectives, and what are the things they're going to help further those and where we have to help is, how do you connect caregiving to those priorities? And a lot of times, you know, it may not connect to everyone, but it can connect to many of them in terms of what the organization really wants to be able to do, especially when you're talking if it's a professional service firm who bill you got that's, you know, as you guys understand, they bill kind of more on by the hour. If you've got large sales organizations, you've got manufacturing organizations on the board of a company that has four plants when somebody misses a shift because of child care, that has a they have had situations where they have to shut down a line because they don't have enough staff, and that has a huge financial implication. And so there's a lot of different ways in which this manifests itself that can provide a cost justification.

Steve  17:12  
There's such a emotional element to this stuff, too, and we've talked about it a ton over the years, right? The emotional connection employees have to their employers through benefits, right? It's not through salary. It's just not, I've said this for years, right? Course, you take a job and maybe even stay in a job because of your compensation. Is it fair? Is it competitive? Are you managing your affairs, et cetera, et cetera. But after two paychecks, man, that is just a transaction, and you stop caring about it, right? But this stuff you care about profoundly in ways maybe you don't understand until it happens to you, right? And so I think the value that can be ascribed to an employer who steps up for their employees, right, in this way, when they need it the most, when they're at their most vulnerable, when they're scared, when they're confused, when a beloved family member, in some cases, right? As you said eloquently, Dave, your dad is ill or needs help and assistance. I You cannot. I mean, CFOs will try, right? But it's difficult to put $1 value on that, to say for an employee later on, to say, my employer really stepped up for me in a meaningful way, right? And, and I will say one other thing, and I'll shut up. I'm off sharing one of my stories too. 10, 12, years ago, my dad got very sick, and had been sick for a while, and I had to run down I was living out of state. I run to go see him all the time. And honestly, I don't have any idea what my employer had or didn't have, but I had a really understanding direct boss who basically told me, do whatever you need. We'll cover for you. Just take it. And my dad, sadly, eventually passes away, and said the same thing, just do whatever you need. My experience there, though, was just mine, because I had that person as my supervisor. Had I been sitting three desks down, my experiences probably would have been completely different, and that's a problem too in workplaces, right? If, because employees understand this, and they see each other, and they know each other, they're friends, right? So I think we can't rely on the EAP. We can't rely on an understanding boss, right for this, right? It doesn't work. Doesn't scale.

Dave Jacobs  19:30  
Those, those components are very helpful. But how do you institutionalize this so it's not dependent on one individual? Because this is very personal. It's one of those kinds of programs that show, yes, it has other business benefit. Shows you care about me as a person. And this is, you know, when, when you get in that situation, and we've all experienced it, you know your professional priorities come as much as you may care about it. They do get they come second. You may be familiar with Dwayne The Rock Johnson, famous movie star and everything. His mom was very sick. He was raised by, you know, his mother. Her, and he spent a lot of time, spent six months basically doing that. Largely he had some help, and people said, well, can't you outsource that? And he said this to me, man, it's my mom. Like, that's all he said. But like, that is, it kind of says it all right, this is, it's not a financial thing. It's his mother, and he wants and so, you know, but for an organization say, we recognize this is important, and we want to support you. The other thing is, employees want to be there for their career, and they would like help. Some of a lot of things we help with are important, but they're not. The thing that somebody wants to spend all day on is trying to track down, you know, in home care for their mom, kind of navigating through the different options of senior living, figuring out which wheelchair to get. How do I get this person? It's important, and somebody's got to do it, but that's something we can do much more efficiently because we're experts at it. They don't have to do and then it can be there for other things that matter really the most, and we can help them find some balance and give them some comfort that, you know, it's okay to be there for your spouse, for your career, and to kind of balance these things out.

Trish  20:58  
Yeah, yeah. And I would imagine, I mean, you're kind of at the front end of it, still, it's sort of like the boomer population is so large compared to, you know, the two that are coming right behind. And so we're going to need more assistance. As it happened, I was just thinking I would feel so good if I'm an employee, and maybe I don't need any kind of caregiving help right now. I may never need it, but just know I could if I needed it be, it's just so proactive, right? So even if I don't use the service, I'm still feeling like that's the person next to me is using it, and thank goodness. 

Dave Jacobs  21:38  
Most people will age into some form of it could be backup care. It could be my wife has got a meeting. I now, you know I was going to be home, or I've got to go out of town. My son is sick now. He can't go to school. What do we do? Right? That's a and that's something to be able to support. So I want to be able to go, kind of on the trip, or go to the meeting. I need to go to organizations can help with those sorts of things kind of as well.

Trish  22:04  
Yeah. And you think you get, like, on the stress side of that, then I'm imagining it would alleviate a lot of stress in those situations. Do you hear feedback from your customers?

Dave Jacobs  22:14  
Yeah, it's what we measure that too. I mean, we see a very significant reduction in stress. There's a certain amount of stress. These are stressful life situations, but it's all the people are stressed that one is finding these things, and it's frustrating and it's opaque and it's confusing. It's just the nature of the insurance system and community based services. That's the nature of our health care system and whatnot. But the other part is people wonder, Am I doing a good job? I want to do a good like and I'm not sure what that looks like, and am I doing and to give people a sense that they've got somebody who's an expert, who can help them, in many cases, a digital component, and give them assurance they are doing a good job, and they're doing the best they can, and they're making the best decisions. Because every family is a little different. They have different priorities, they have different needs, and we help people make the best decision for their family. And the three of us could have the same situation, so to speak. But given family priorities, we might do different things, and that's okay, and giving people the permission to make those decisions, or it could be, we went through this with my wife's grandmother. She was in her 90s, didn't want to use a walker and had an image of herself and she would fall. And got my wife very frustrated. My wife was right, tech my wife's grandmother said, I don't want to feel old. That's her decision. She she was doing it very knowingly, and it made my wife and my mother in law more comfortable, like you have to respect her decision. That's the process. And so that reduced their stress, as opposed to feeling like they weren't doing something right, or they weren't able to convince her.

Trish  23:37  
Oh, wow, that's fascinating.

Steve  23:39  
Hey, Dave, one of the last things I wanted to ask you would be to, and you can anonymize this if you need to just maybe share with us, put a little color around, say, the typical experience you guys have seen with your with your clients, maybe, who's implemented, you know, a pretty robust caregiving program support for their employees over, you know, a number of years where you can, kind of, They've been able to get data works for the outcomes that you're seeing, positive outcomes. I'd love for you to share.

Dave Jacobs  24:06  
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. We're proud of what we've been able to do. First and foremost, you know, after we get it ramped up, and people get familiar with after about six months, we're getting, depending on what range of programs in that high chair, the rocking chair and beyond, they use, they use the whole thing with backup gear. We're getting about 25% of all employees to use some parts of our service, which I think in some ways, that's probably people are voting with their feet, so to speak, and it wasn't something that was helpful or met a need that they have. They wouldn't use it. It's not a perk in that way. So we're getting a lot of utilization, and people come back on a pretty consistent basis for different things. Our digital component helps, because we get them earlier, so they know about it before it's a crisis, because and so that's one thing, and then once they do, we have been able to reduce we it's self reported. It's about the only to reduce the intent to resign by about 80 80% so we asked people, you. The beginning, what's the, you know, anonymous thing, what's the likelihood you're gonna leave in the next six months? These are people in a caregiving situation, and we'll see what the normal is. About 80% say they're gonna, you know, I'm not gonna leave the workforce forever, but I've got to figure this out, and then I'm gonna come back, and we're able to get that down under 10% of people who now feel like I've got support. I figured out how to do it. There's other things that can be done. I don't have to do it all myself. So that's one thing that's good for the employee. It's good for the employer, and frankly, it's even it's good for the family overall. And so that's another thing. It's important. We're able to save people about 16 hours a week of just stuff that they would do, of running around a therapist, making phone calls, all that kind of stuff. And so that's kind of very helpful. And the qualitative thing we hear, in addition to just getting people at a very vulnerable important part of their life, is they do appreciate their employer. And they sure, when you talk to HR leaders, a lot of times they complaints or requests or new insurance cards. This is one of those things they get, actually, thank yous, because it does touch somebody at a very important part of their life, and and it speaks to them as a person. And, you know, and that's something that is, it's qualitative, but it's something we hear on a consistent basis.

Trish  26:09  
Yeah, yeah, I would imagine it also equates to better healing, if, if that's the thing, if it's a an elder care, maybe, right? Or even a child there, you know, I've had many employees with you know childhood illnesses were impacting their family and that sort of thing. So, yeah, if your parent or you're the child who's caring, it does matter, if it's you, they're not worrying about all the other things you have to worry about. 

Dave Jacobs  26:36  
Trish, if I could just you mentioned, is about 55% of our members use another benefit that their employer offered they weren't even aware of. So that's part of that would help on the healing, you know. But I'm thinking things like they offer very good mental health that people aren't aware of, or how to access. They may need prepaid legal it could be the EAP for something. It could be fertility benefits or other things. And like, we get them to these other things, we want to work well in the ecosystem, and we can work under somebody else's umbrella to get more utilization, make it easier for HR, so it doesn't feel like one other program. We even have other partners where we can contract under them, so it's not a whole new process, and which is time consuming for an organization.

Steve  27:17  
Sure. Yeah, Dave. Last thing for me is like, where do you think it's going? Right with demographic trends, with the younger generation, certainly much more invested in a emotional connection with their employers and employees that align with values, et cetera. We've heard that a lot. What do you see the employer sponsored and supported caregiving market heading?

Dave Jacobs  27:39  
No, it's a great point. I think there's a few things, and some of what I believe may not be the norm, but I think one, it's going to continue for all the reasons you said, and Trish talked about trends. The other thing worth mentioning, people don't want to go to senior living communities, so they want to be at home, so that puts more pressure. That's going to fuel it. I think it's going to go, I think it's it's going to continue to come out of the shadows. I think you said in the beginning, Steve, very well, much like mental health did, yeah, six, seven years ago. And it's going to be more broadly accepted and something you can talk about. So it's always there. But the other big thing, I think, and I think where it belongs, and we're building this way, is to be able to integrate it into other things, caregiving support. Caregiver support necessarily, doesn't necessarily, and maybe, in my opinion, shouldn't always be just a standalone but it's part of other things and other journeys people are going on. So, you know, we're not a clinical organization, but if you're going through, if you have mental health, this is one of the biggest contributors to mental health challenges. We're not the therapists, but we can help around that. We're experts at that. Whether it's, you know, you have family formation, there's a lot of caregiving things related. It could be even child care that comes after. That's where kind of our expertise, and so be able to plug and even chronic disease management answer chronic kidney disease, there's a there's a caregiving component to help people get transportation, get to their appointments, get their med. That's where we come in. And the digital component that we've developed allows us to plug in much more seamlessly and be much more integrated, which makes it a lower cost experience for people and a better experience. Because now, as a if I'm using my company's Cancer Care program, I want to work with all these companies. I just want the help I need, right? And I want the companies, ideally, to work together, and so we're doing that a lot more. I think that's the where it should go. We're fine if it's our stuff, it's white labeled as long as but we have a real expertise in this area that is valuable and different than other clinical expertise. But I think they go together versus being a standalone.

Steve  29:30  
Thanks, Dave. I love that. I love that this has been really fascinating conversation. Dave, I am like, I knew we would have a great conversation. I know I love the topic, it's clear that you are, like, super passionate about it, which comes through. And I love when we've had a number of founders over the years, and the most compelling stories are always those ones that that the origin story has that personal experience attached to it, right? It wasn't like, how can I make the most amount of money using AI? You know, like. Story which we're hearing, I guess, now, but our crypto or something like that. But Dave, for folks who want to connect with home, thrive, learn more, get their organization, maybe get them in conversations with you. Where can we send them?

Dave Jacobs  30:14  
I mean, www.Homethrive.com, gives you an overview. People could reach out to me directly at djacobs@homethrive.com and either I'll help or get them to the right kind of colleague. And my only suggestion is, even if it's for whatever reason, Homethrive might not be the right fit, I think that all organizations should have some somebody like us who's providing support for those caregivers through that range of their journeys and and require people like us to work with others, to help promote it, and kind of bring things together, get more awareness, utilization, and those things out there.

Trish  30:48  
What a great course, I wish. I wish this would have existed 20 years ago when I was, you know, yeah, yeah. It's, I think it's just such, like Steve said, it's an emotional thing too.

Steve  31:04  
It's important, and it's it resonates with people, and it connects with them at levels that that, quite frankly, just about every other types of interventions in the workplace just can't do it right?

Trish  31:14  
I think there are a lot of empathetic leaders. They want to be able to help their employees, but they might not know how. So this, if you're in that boat, it gives you that ability to show your empathy.

Dave Jacobs  31:27  
I think it's very true. Well said. 

Steve  31:29  
Great stuff. All right, Dave, thank you so much. It's great to meet you. Great to talk to you today. We will stay connected to home, thrive, and to you, go to Home, thrive.com. To learn more. Dave Jacobs, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. 

Dave Jacobs  31:41  
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation. Awesome. 

Steve  31:44  
Trish, great stuff. I love it, man. My favorite subject. I think this year it is for all year.

Trish  31:48  
It truly is. It's so needed and so, yeah, I feel like that's what we're here to do. We're here to share resources so that everyone else can benefit as well. So happy to be the one. 

Steve  31:59  
I want to thank everybody for listening. Make sure to check out all the network shows. Go to hrhappyhour.net, subscribe, tell a friend all of this. Gonna be a great year on the show. We're so excited to be back again. Thanks for listening. My name is Steve Boese. We'll see you next time, and bye for now. 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai