Nick Schlemmer 0:00 What if your wins at work didn't have to stop there? Workhuman's Employee Recognition platform is built on the world's largest rewards marketplace, tying recognition for great work to the things that people love outside it. Crush a project? Snag that baking dish you've been eyeing. Hit a milestone? Celebrate with a weekend getaway. With over 1 million gadgets, gift cards and experiences, something is redeemed in Workhumans in house store every three seconds. Each reward deepens connections, boosts engagement and helps fuel a culture that knows their work matters and has the receipts to prove it. Head over to workhuman.com to learn more. Workhuman a proud supporter of the HRHappyHour Network.Thank you for joining us and enjoy the show. Jack McFarlane 0:46 Hi everyone, and welcome to the HR Happy Hour network. This is a Play by Play podcast hosted by myself, Jack McFarlane and Nick Schlemmer. Nick Schlemmer 0:54 Hey guys, how's it going? Jack McFarlane 1:00 Well, we are officially on episode 43, Nick, there's a couple things that go with that. One, we're really close to Episode 50. That's a big milestone, in my opinion. Nick Schlemmer 1:13 It is. Jack McFarlane 1:14 We are going to celebrate today, right? We have a super exciting guest that we're bringing on, and had a fantastic interview. But not only that, for 42 episodes, we've done quote of the show at the end. So we're going to switch it up a little bit, and we're going to hit it right at the beginning. Take it away Nick, quote of the show but at the beginning of the show. Nick Schlemmer 1:33 Let's jump right into it, Jack. Today's quote is from Thomas Edison. He said, and I quote, "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." I think it ties great into today's episode. Jack McFarlane 1:48 That is, yeah, that is fantastic. Keep that quote in mind as you're listening to this to today's episode, and see if you can find where exactly it fits in. There's one big moment that sticks out to me throughout the interview, and I hope you guys can find it if you like a little game. So without further ado, let's jump right in. Jack McFarlane 2:13 With over 30 years of HR experience, John Baldino is the president of Humareso and a global keynote speaker specializing in leadership, organizational design and inclusion. John also co hosts the LinkedIn Live series But First, coffee. All right, everybody. Help us welcome John to the Play by Play. John, thank you so much for being here. Jack McFarlane 2:17 Hello, Nick. Hey, Jack. How you guys doing? Glad to be here. Jack McFarlane 2:38 Yeah, we're doing good. Let's just jump right into it. You know, you've done a lot. You've had a very successful career. Let's take it back to the start. Where did you get your start? How did you get going and end up on this path that you ended up on? John Baldino 2:50 Yeah, you know, it's one of those classic sort of HR stories. I don't know that I intended to get into human resources. When I I started, actually, while I was in college, I started in personnel, but I was actually, I thought I was going to school to be I was an English major. I thought I was going to teach. And what I did during college was work in personnel, and part of my responsibility was training, the teaching thing happened there. And when I graduated college, I continued to work in HR at night, and so did the training and personnel, HR management at night. And in the day, I taught Junior High English. And did that for two years, and realized the kids were awesome, but I I was better with adults, and so that just continued to kind of propel me forward in this career. And it has been a long time, I mean, longer than each of you has been alive, which is really so frustratingly annoying. Jack McFarlane 4:04 It just means you're doing good work, right? You're still going, you must be doing something right? John Baldino 4:11 I mean, we'll go with that. I just being on this with the two of you now, I'm like, oh gosh, I need to pull this back a little bit. Jack McFarlane 4:21 Yeah. So, I mean, you're working HR at night, teaching in the day. There's got to be a lot of challenges involved with that, I'm sure, like in finding time to sleep just throughout your career, what are some of the biggest challenges that you face that just to come to mind? John Baldino 4:37 Yeah. I mean, look, first of all, when I will tell you that in those two years where I was doing both, this is absolutely the truth, I got mono. And I mean, I really wore myself down. And so I would say, I appreciate, obviously, youth and all the energy that goes along with it. But there is something to be said about taking care of yourself. It does not matter age, right? And I when they told me I had mono, because I could not, like, stay awake. And when, when my doctors, like, yeah, you you're positive for mono. And I'm like, What? What do you mean? I got 58 things I got to do, and and your body will just kind of tell you, like, that's enough. And so I think early on, that was a really good lesson for me, because I equated busyness with good effort and positive outcome and and sometimes that's not the case, right? So that was a good lesson for me to learn how to work efficiently, smartly and pay attention to my whole person, that obviously will stop you in your tracks. But the other thing I would say is, I think in my career, I get the privilege of speaking quite a bit and being a guest in college courses and things like that, which is awesome. And so often, when I get to talk to college students, and I'll ask, you know, so why? Why HR? And a lot of them are business majors, you know, you guys know that not every college has like HR as a major, right? It's maybe a concentration or just and people are always like, if it's not the first answer. It's the second answer, where people are like, it's because I just love people. And my answer to that is pretty standard, which is that will last a week, if that, because you just, you're dealing with with, you know, ick. And I think that it's you do need to like people, but be sort of directed in understanding that if you just base it off of the way people respond to you, there'll be days that they don't like you. And so if your self worth is wrapped up in some of that, even unintentionally, it's a challenge. And so I think early on, I had to learn that as well. Like it wasn't personal, I had to keep aligned with these people aren't my friends. Some of them are. I can be friendly with people, but that's not being friends with people. And so that was a great lesson for me to learn as well. John Baldino 5:23 That's really great. I couldn't agree with you more, and I kind of had a question about you know, you said you made the change, and you realize you really liked working with adults versus kids. You know, what was that? Or do you have, like, a defining moment where you're like, Yes, I need to make this change right now, because this happened. Or, you know, you talk to somebody and they really put it in perspective for you. Like, was there a defining moment you had that made you shift your career? John Baldino 7:41 I don't know, is my my knee jerk answer. I don't know. I will say probably a couple of things led to that. I don't know if it's one thing, but a couple of things, one where I taught was tough, and so the for those of you listening, I did two years of my teaching in Camden, New Jersey. And if you know anything about Camden, it is, it can be a rough area, and and I taught in a rough area. And I don't say that because I was scared or anything. I wasn't, but it teaches you that what I realized was that I was teaching kids in junior high that were forced to be very adult oriented, and because life had sort of pushed them. And it's a sad truth, but many had kind of lost their part of their childhood because they needed to be I mean, I had seventh graders who the the young, young men that were in that class were the men of the household. There was no dad. Maybe there was never a dad in the home. And so you're you're talking to folks that had to be adults early, earlier than they could have been. The other thing, I would say is, is in prep, in doing training in the evenings with adults and and having an appreciation for the lives that they were living. Many were doing two jobs to make ends meet. Some folks were going to school and then working at night right to help pay for school. And so there were peers that were that were there, as well as those that were, quite frankly, my parents age, and so I found that I had a knack to be able to find common ground, build rapport, develop relationship, and that helped to propel some of the objectives we had, even if it's how do I use this register, or how do I put, working in retail, how do I put stock back? And what do I do with customer complaints and and really just helping people to say, you know, a lot of these answers already, believe it or not, but it's just a matter of sort of bringing it out in you. Yes, if somebody comes and wants to complain, I your knee jerk might be to complain back at them. I get it. But you know that's not going to help you long term. And so adults tend to have, not all, but many adults tend to have a little bit of critical thinking around those things. So I think I don't know, Nick if I had one moment, those things just started to bubble up, and I saw them as being clear, clear for me to stick with adults. Nick Schlemmer 10:22 I love that, thank you. Jack McFarlane 10:23 Yeah. That's, you know, that just makes me think. I feel like everyone has a couple big defining moments in their career. You know, maybe two to three. That's definitely one for you is deciding I'm going to be working in HR with adults over teaching. That's a huge moment. Yeah, I would say another huge moment is the switch from you working to becoming a president of your own company? Could you take us through how you came to that position? What was the start like? I mean, I've seen with Trish, you know, the switch, the start of a company and all the growing so I'm curious of how that happened for you. John Baldino 10:58 I love the idea of a being in charge. Now I'm, I'm saying it that way on purpose. I love the idea of being in charge. However, I think there's something really valuable to have a body of work under your belt before you go with being in charge. And and I say that because, and I don't mean this with any shade, I have had the privilege of talking to some younger entrepreneurs who have worked, and I'll be specific to HR, HR technology. I have in other industries, had conversations, but I'll stick with HR and HR tech, folks that have worked for a company for a year maybe two, who come to me and say, Okay, I'm ready to be a founder just like you, John and so tell me all the things I need to do. Usually my response is, you need to work at least five more years like because you just you couldn't have gleaned enough in that year or two to really be seen as a trusted advisor to companies that would want to hire you to come in and help them. And, and it's funny because I remember one in particular, most people received that. Well, I had one in particular that was like, that's ageism and, and I was like, well, part of me wanted to say, well, too bad I get it all the time. But the other part, like, what I wound up saying was, it's not really ageism, it's experience ism because it's hard for a CEO to look at someone who's worked a year and a half, and I don't care if you've worked for SAP or or Workday or what have you, and you're like, Well, I've got 18 months in and so now I'm ready to help a company direct how they do all their business. I think it's tough. And so for me, when I started Humareso, it was, you know, 20 plus years already under my belt of HR experience. And it was a, still, a big jump. I mean, Jack, you can imagine, you know, you mentioned Trish, like, I, married, three kids, mortgage, all the things, right? And I was like, Well, I think it's time. And I had a great job. I wasn't, I can't say I was, like, supremely unhappy. They were very happy with my work. I had national coverage in what I was doing. I mean, I was a VP of HR and for a national bank, and it was terrific. And I gave my notice, and then I went home and told my wife, and let's have a little bit of marriage counseling here. Well, like I don't know that I would say that's the greatest way to do it, either. But I would say I knew she was with me. So I don't want anybody to hear that as if I'm, I'm, you know, some megalomaniac chauvinist, but I knew she was with me and and my for me, there were a couple of things that needed to be true. One, I needed to count the costs. I had to sit and say, by doing this, what will it cost me? What am I willing to sacrifice and for how long am I willing to sacrifice it? And so some practicals were, I had six months in the bank to pay for us to continue to live comfortably, mortgage all that good stuff, without having to dip into some other things. And so I told her that, and she was like, Okay, let's try. This way we can at least say we tried. The other thing I would say is that I was very clear in what I was starting the business for. Sometimes, I think entrepreneurs in our space, right in this HR space, sometimes you'll have consultants that'll start a consultancy because they got laid off and they're having trouble finding their next job, and it's been X amount of months, and so I'm going to hang my own shingle, so to speak. I get a lot of ads, and it's okay. I don't think that's a reason to start your own organization. That's not a reason, right? That's that's reactive, and I think it's meant to be proactive. I'm not saying that you can't consider starting your own thing, right, based upon some event that happens in life, but you really have to count the costs. And if you can't be proactive in your perspective and sort of just do this until something else comes along, you're not 100% in. And so I needed to be 100% in. And then the last thing I'll say is, I think there's something really strong about involving others in your success. So I left my role back in the summer of 2012 and the next morning, I had breakfast with the president of a company who was like, You're I can't believe you're leaving your job. Let's have breakfast. I'm so curious to know what it is you're doing. And I remember driving to that breakfast thinking, Well, I don't know 100% know what I'm doing, but I'm happy to have breakfast. And so I had breakfast, and I shared the vision. And the vision was very clear. I was focused on providing outsourced HR support up to a VP of HR CHRO level or small business who are now finding themselves competing with enterprise level organizations. So my classic example is, you know, I can go online and search Yankee Candle and look for for cents and deals that I want, and then Mom and Pop candle company comes up in my search as well, and I'm searching for cents and deals, and I buy from Mom and Pop. Well, I'm just competing with Yankee Candle. So from a from a revenue standpoint, those worlds overlap. Well, that's going to mean that, from a talent standpoint, those worlds are already, or very quickly, are going to be overlapping, because Mom and Pop candle is probably going to start to need to think bigger about the reach that they want to have, and operational delivery that they that they need to have. They've got to look at resourcing all of that kind of stuff, and so they're going to need to get talent that might have familiarity by working in an enterprise level organization. Mom and Pop Candle Company don't have the experience from the HR perspective, from the talent strategy perspective, no shade to them at all to know how to sort of scale and forecast and build to that. That was my premise. And when I sat with him that morning and shared it over breakfast before the check came, he said, Can I be your first client? And I was like, you sure can. And and so signed up right they signed them up right there. And that's how I knew that this was going to that I had something that was going to be of value to people. And it was also great able to go home after that and tell my wife, see I told you. Jack McFarlane 18:14 Business is easy. This is easy. John Baldino 18:16 Almost. Not every day is like that, but almost, but at least it was confirmation. You know what I mean, like you're on the right track. Nick Schlemmer 18:28 You know, it really seems like you built a strong foundation for yourself. You know, before you took that jump with your financials, your mental state, with your family and just with your business partners who are backing you up along the way, kind of transitioning that into advice for Gen Z, who are looking to be entrepreneurs. I know some of it probably, you know, relates, it's this that you can say the same thing to us. But you know, for like me and Jack, is there any advice for like Gen Z that you would give? John Baldino 18:58 Yeah, I would say. First of all, and I enjoy the two of you, so please take this well, I this is not pandering, like both of you have smiles on your faces right now. Please keep doing that. That's honestly one of the first things I tell people is like, you got to remember the joy in the motivation, because every day there won't be happiness every day, but you can make a decision to operate out of joy every day. And you know, in human resources and again, I share this so I'm not I'm not necessarily saying anything new, but like every day in my career has not been a happy day, I have had the difficult job of sitting with people to terminate them, to be involved with layoffs when a business isn't doing well. I've had to sit with people, though, who are battling cancer, and I'm a crier, so I'll hold your hands and cry right with you. Right while, while you're sharing what's going on and, and, and, you know, lots of death in my years in human resources and sharing in that with others. And I'm saying this because I would, I want to say to, you know, Gen Z entrepreneurs, this does not require you to lay aside your humanity. None of what we're talking about requires you to lay that aside. In fact, I would lean into it more because and really help that really will help you to define how the emotion fits into this, right? Because people think I'm going to just be passionate. Well, listen, I was passionate. Let me. Let me go back years. I was passionate in high school about a particular young lady that I know, if she just would say yes, would have the time of her life, dating me and then going to prom and marrying me and having eight kids, I was good to go. The problem was my passion wasn't enough, because she didn't see it that way at all. Right? So, so passion can't be enough of a driver. I think you want to use who you are as a human and the emotion that comes along with it and the drive that you have towards that goal. Yes, the passion is part of it, but have some boundary with that right where how far does curiosity go? How far does my discipline go? What am I willing to do? When I talked about my my own journey and starting Humareso, I sat and counted the costs. What would it cost me to do this, not just financially, though, that's part of it. What will it cost me in time? What will it cost me in relationship with others? Because I won't be as available, or I won't be as available in the same ways that I have been, what am I willing to put on hold for a bit until this gets to a place where I hope it gets to. There's a counting of costs that has to happen there and I would say that's true for any generation, any person, you've got to sit and do that. Am I doing okay? I got one or two more, but I want to make sure you guys are tracking with me. Jack McFarlane 22:15 You're perfect. Yeah, keep going. John Baldino 22:18 I think and I sort of alluded to this, you got to really know how work happens in whatever business you're starting, how does the work get done? And so if you know how the work gets done, it's easier for you to sit back and say, Now, as a result of that, what problem am I trying to solve? What streamlining am I attempting to bring to the table? Because not everything is either right or wrong. It could just be better. And so what am I bringing to the table for that as well? How I'm going to need to know systems really well. I'm going to have to know operational management really well. I'm going to have to understand financials really well. Yes, what's the cost of labor? What's the what's the cost of goods? What does it cost me to to for? What does it cost an organization for leveraging money? And you know, how long do we have as an entrepreneur myself, and I didn't mention this. I don't always talk about this, but I'm not private equity backed. I'm not venture capital backed. I'm Baldino bootstrapped. It's all me, right? That's how this this work from the beginning. And yes, there's some great benefit to that, but that isn't the path that everybody has to take. Not one road is going to fit everybody, but you do need to start with an understanding of the work of the business, right? What is it that you're trying to solve for? I would also say there are going to be naysayers, but not everybody who is a naysayer is out for your demise. Receive the critique. I'm telling you to be to receive the criticism. If it becomes about you as a person, too much, and you heard me say too much, there are times where right like, if Jack was starting a business and someone's like Jack, the way that you present yourself is a bit obnoxious. That's not true. I know that, but I'm just going to use that as an example. It's a bit obnoxious. You don't you're not gracious in the way in which you're talking to people enough. You have a lot of bravado. You're coming in with something to prove. Whatever those things are. There are bits of that you have to listen to and at least do the self examination. Is there any truth to this? Is Is there something I should pay attention to? If the answer is no, then it's no. But I think, as a Gen Z person like I would say, quite frankly, to any young person, I don't care what the generation is. There's a lot of us that gets into this stuff that we do, your self esteem, your self worth, gets gets really wrapped into doing something entrepreneurial. It's easy for us to sort of get defensive or very beat up. There's a middle road, and the middle road will give you resilience. That is what is necessary, much more so than beating yourself up or then pushing back on everybody. Allow it to help you develop resilience, because you're going to have to bounce back from a lot of things as you're developing a business, building a business. I'm curious. Let me ask the two of you, when you think about one of the things that I think is easy for an entrepreneur to lean into at the moment, is anything technological, right? It's like, I'm going to leverage whatever from a tech standpoint, do you how do you know that it's not just noise in the tech space, right? When you look at social media as an example, like, I'm gonna make all my money on Tiktok, right? All that stuff that happened a few years back, and I'm not saying people didn't, they certainly did, but it's all changed now, right? The algorithms change. They don't pay out as much as they used to. So if I built my living on that, I'm kind of screwed at the moment. So how do the two of you sort of factor in a reasonable approach to technology when you're thinking about being an entrepreneur? Jack McFarlane 26:30 Yeah, that's a great question. Um, what first thing that comes to my mind is flexibility, right? A lot of the people that like I when you say TikTok streamers, YouTubers, whatever it might be, couple years ago really blew up. I think of all the people that are still successful in that today are the ones that adapted with the change. They weren't stuck in their ways. They were very, very flexible with it, because technology changes so fast. I'm sure you know, everyone listening knows, like literally within one day, the world can change with a new technology. So biggest thing for me is being very flexible, being open to change. The other thing would be, this might sound a little I don't know what the right word is, but just looking for the right signs. Like for you, you went to your very first breakfast and had a client, and that was just a good sign that you're doing the right thing. You know, you'll see the signs if it's truly meant to be. I It's my belief that you will see the correct signs. So you just need to be open and, you know, be flexible and see the signs. That's what I would do. I don't know what would you do Nick? Nick Schlemmer 27:38 I, you know, I agree with everything that you just said, Jack, I think if I was to say something different, I would go into the perspective of trying to utilize technology to the best of my ability that I can, and then trying to, like, cross check that with Am I seeing the results? Are the results still staying constant, like Jack said, technology is ever changing, and changes very rapidly. So I would try and take an approach to, I want to utilize this. I want to try, try, try, maybe one, one time I fail or do the wrong thing, how can I get back into it and try and find a new avenue to take or, you know, catch up on the times and find that new trend or whatever is going on that I could utilize technology for to then help out my business. John Baldino 28:25 It is, thank you. I love that, and I think that it is a good reminder that to define your safety net when you're doing that that sort of exploration and testing right? Is, is my premise Correct? Oh no, it's not. I my results right, Nick, don't show that what I thought was actually right. But so what is that safety net like? And so for any entrepreneur, and I know there are people who are going to be listening, who are not in their 20s, they might be in their 40s, thinking about, you know, doing something entrepreneurial. Just define your safety net then, like, how can I feel, every time I do something and it doesn't work out, I that doesn't equal failure. I have a safety net that lets me play, right, and and that if I can remind myself that I have these things, then I can test my hypothesis a few different ways so that I can have some stability and confidence to move forward. So I appreciate how you guys said that, yeah. Jack McFarlane 29:30 And the last thing I want to say is just on that word failure, for anyone listening, right? A lot of people see failure as a very bad thing. It is not. You know, failure comes with learning and then greater successes. So never get down on yourself for you know, quote, unquote, failing at something you never truly failed, unless you just straight up give up, you know. So take that word failure for anyone listening. That's whatever it's, entrepreneur trying to get a promotion and job, whatever it may be. Just use that as learning experience, and then you will succeed. So just a quick little tidbit there, little advice from Jack. John Baldino 30:06 Awesome, great advice. Nick Schlemmer 30:15 Jack, today's show is great, and a huge thank you to John for coming on. So much great information. I've sincerely enjoyed this and learned so much from you, John. I really appreciate your time. John Baldino 30:25 I appreciate you guys. Thank you for asking me. Jack McFarlane 30:28 Yeah, thank you so much, John. This is definitely going to be the must listen of the year. You know, we're not quite there. There's still a couple episodes, but I've got a strong, strong feeling about this one. John Baldino 30:39 Well, thank you. Nick Schlemmer 30:40 Thank you everybody for tuning in and bye for now. Transcribed by https://otter.ai