Nick Schlemmer  0:00  
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Jack McFarlane  0:46  
Hi everyone, and welcome to the HRHappyHour network. This is The Play by Play podcast hosted by myself, Jack McFarlane and Nick Schlemmer.

Nick Schlemmer  0:54  
Hey guys. How's it going? 

Jack McFarlane  0:56  
Well, I've got a little bit of a fun fact to start us off today, Nick and for those of you listening, today was my very last day of school. I just submitted my last assignment two hours ago. Nick is also very, very close. You've got just a couple classes left due to his internships, he's had to go a semester longer, but he's very close. I'm just done. So Nick, what is what does that mean for us? What joys do we get to go through next?

Nick Schlemmer  1:22  
Jack, that means you first me second, but we are entering the real world, real job market. Isn't that great? Congratulations, by the way, I know it's nice hitting that final, that final submit button.

Jack McFarlane  1:37  
It felt pretty good. So thank you, first of all, and early congrats too, because you're so close as well. But yeah, exactly right. We're going to be jumping into the real world starting off work. And what does every job have, no matter what? That is, HR, it's HR. So that's what we're going to talk about today. Nick, we're going to take a quick break, and we're coming back. We've got how AI is changing HR, and I'm super excited. 

Jack McFarlane  2:12  
We are back, guys. And one of the biggest things we talk about in every episode, you know, this is an extension of our year long series, is what I like to call it. And that's how technology and AI plus Gen Z are changing these different departments and work, right? So today is all about HR. There is a lot of AI in HR right now, a lot of AI, a lot of technology. Obviously, we're on the HRHappyHour network. The biggest thing that the network is, is HR tech. So there's a lot of exciting stuff. Biggest one, most generic thing to know is called agenetic AI. This is like the level up from your chat GPT, just classic AI models that we're all used to at this point. This is like level two, right? So you're not just talking or creating content, but it's actually acting as an autonomous digital worker to complete a goal. So no more are you saying, hey GPT, what's the weather or hey GPT, what's two plus two, stuff like that. And it just telling you it's not an it's not a question and answer anymore. This is an AI that, for lack of a better term, this is a worker, right? It's doing stuff in the background. It is completing goals for you. So it's very, very advanced, and that's going to be the overall theme when it comes to HR. Is this agentic AI, right? So, Nick, what are some ways that this AI is being used in HR, specifically?

Nick Schlemmer  3:40  
 When dealing with HR Jack, you know, you dive straight into hiring, interviews, going over resumes, excuse me, screening them, seeing what they're about, what the person has or has not done. And AI is able to, you know, consolidate all of those things and make it easier for the employer in a way to, you know, sort through those, and through the hiring, you can almost, you can do an AI interview. And I don't know if you've been a part of that yet, Jack, you may, you can speak on that, but I know that's becoming more common.

Jack McFarlane  4:13  
Yes, I can definitely speak on that. It really is becoming a part of every job application I did. I'm pretty sure there was at least some form of AI being used. The biggest one I had a job where a job interview, where you submit your application, that was step one. And then I'm sure they had AI that did resume screening, which is it goes over all the important parts. That way, it doesn't take a human one week to go through 1000 applications. The AI can do it in an hour, right? And it's just picking out the best parts. So made it a step two. Step two was just like a test. Not much AI used in that I don't think, just seeing, I don't know how your mind works. Third step, this is where it got crazy. It was a sit down interview. Yeah, but with the AI, so going into it, I didn't really even know what to expect, like, that's very new, very different. You know, I've had other elements that involved AI, you know, sometimes those tests involve AI. Sometimes the application even involves your AI readiness? What you know, stuff like that. But I did not know what to expect for a full on interview. And it, I mean, if you would have told me that it was just a normal interview, it'd be hard to tell it wasn't a real person. It was very, very trippy, for like, a lack of a better term, it was it was interesting. It was super realistic, like you would it would ask you a question, and you'd answer, and it might say, Oh, what's a past experience you've had, Jack? Oh, you know, I worked at a Hobble Creek Golf Course in Springville. Then it might ask you a couple more questions, and then it'll be like now when working at Hobble Creek, you know, did you ever have an experience with a customer coming up to the pro shop and, you know, complaining, how would you deal with that? It would get, like, very specific. It was like a real interview where they could call that blew my mind, blew my mind, and it was totally stress free. I don't know if it just because it wasn't a real person. I had no stress about it, right? Super interesting. I imagine it's going to be everywhere within five years. Most companies will do that. But, yeah, it was super interesting.

Nick Schlemmer  6:25  
And, you know, there's a couple parts there that really struck intriguing to me, just the fact that it was able to, like, go deeper into you worked at a golf course, tell me about it just on the spot. Like, Sure, maybe they already went through your resume. Maybe it knew already that you worked at a golf course maybe, like in the past, but the fact that it was able to ask you specific questions about, you know, the moving parts of what you did there.

Jack McFarlane  6:52  
Yeah.

Nick Schlemmer  6:52  
That's pretty crazy to me.

Jack McFarlane  6:53  
Yeah, that's a good point. I haven't thought of that. Maybe it did know a little bit of back, like background, but it was definitely very intuitive and able. It was literally like talking to a real person. So it was, it blew my mind for, without knowing what I'll say. It was very, very cool. Is a very cool thing. It's a way that AI has been used that I haven't really seen to that level. It was very fluid. It didn't sound robotic. That's the other thing a lot of AI's can sound like an AI. This did not. This sounded like a real human. So just something really cool, you know? But there's a lot more to HR than just hiring and firing, right? I mean, everyone thinks of that, right? HR, you work. HR, that's hiring, firing, no. HR is every aspect of the business. So of course, AI is going to help, and technology is going to help with all that stuff. Here's one interesting one that I'm not sure if you've heard of Nick I hadn't heard of this until doing research. Super intriguing to me. And it's these predictive AIs that are now able to flag when an employee might be having some trouble, might be thinking about quitting that way, like you, as the manager, can step in and try and solve those issues or figure out a better plan. It's basically identifying people that are like flight risk, right? So if you were the employee, Nick, the AI might somehow be able, maybe through your actions, maybe what you're telling your AI, I'm not exactly sure, but it's with somehow be able to flag, Hey, Nick, his productions down a little bit. He seems his morale is down. He's looking up Indeed, on a company computer, he might be looking for a new job. We should get involved. And then, if I was your manager, I could step in. Say, Oh, Nick, what's you have any problems like, what can we be doing to keep you around, right? So, yeah, that was one of the most interesting things I found. Had you ever heard of anything like that Nick?

Nick Schlemmer  8:51  
I have never, that's that's new to me too, Jack. And one point that I want to make is, you said, you know, company computer, everything, once you get on those companies, company computers, you know, is tracked. You know, it's watched. So if you can tie the AI to that, and then it can see what you're doing, what you're looking up, like you said, maybe your works a few days late, you're looked up Indeed, you know, all these things, I think, just that alone, if you're not on your personal computer doing work you're on, like a company computer where everything's controlled. It's a controlled environment. I think it's going to make those predictive AI's, even better. Yeah, even stronger.

Jack McFarlane  9:30  
No, that's a great point. That's a great point. It is going to be super interesting to give it, you know, 5-10, years, to really see how that, because it's very new, right? All this is new. That's what's really exciting about all this technology and AI, all this is brand new. So in 5-10, years, it'll be interesting to look back and see what it has become compared to where it is right now.

Nick Schlemmer  9:51  
100% and I think too Jack, something like this would work with, you know, those medium to large companies, as far as like total employment. If you have a small company or just a, you know, a private brand, that's only 5-10, people, I would like to think that, you know, as the CEO or the owner, you have a good...

Jack McFarlane  10:10  
You'd have more face time, right? 

Nick Schlemmer  10:12  
how everybody's feeling. But if you have 40 people that you have to oversee, maybe something slips by. You don't notice it. That's where this comes into play.

Jack McFarlane  10:19  
Yeah, exactly. That's a great point. Like, if it's a company where you just don't get to see, you know, if you're the boss, if you don't get to see all your employees all the time in you're very busy, it can be hard to see those red flags, and this AI can just pick up on that for you. So super interesting. Another way that the AI is changing the game is with these personalized like training paths, is what I'm going to call it, but just personalized training, right? If Nick, you're a brand new hire and I've been working out a company for five years, our training should be different, yeah, but in most companies it's not. It's now you'll get new hire training once. But you know, every year, half a year, whatever it depends on your company, there is training to be done. What's the use of training if you already know it all right? I guess it's sometimes it's good to get you know that do over, get it fresh in the brain. But overall, you want training that's actually going to train your employees. So AI is able to create all this custom training. I even played around with this a little bit with Gemini, just kind of giving it fake examples of employees when I was researching for this, for this episode, and it's really fascinating. Now Gemini is not probably what they're using, right? They're probably using a very specific AI that is, all it does is look for this and create training, but even Gemini, so it can create that. So I'd say, if you're listening and you and you want to see something neat, start giving your AIs these fake give a couple fake employees and say, How would you train them differently? And it's super fascinating. So it's just all that personalization, because it just knows, and we'll get into this in just a minute here. But it AI, is really getting to know you, not just what you tell it, but it's able to really start to understand your knowledge, your what's the word I'm looking for, your tendencies. That's the word your tendencies. So it's super personalized. Have you ever seen? I mean, I know, for those listening Nick, he doesn't really have to go through Indeed to find a job right through the PGM, it's totally different. So I know you haven't had too much experience with this, but have you seen any of anything like that, or at the golf courses you've worked at, at all anything with this AI, personalization?

Nick Schlemmer  12:42  
So I've definitely had, you know, some experience with specific training for, say, a retail job, whether or not it was put together by AI. I don't, you know, I couldn't speak to that as to whether it was or not, but I've seen these training videos and how they can vary on the title of job you may have, you know, as, for example, a store manager, his training like he knows it. He's been doing it for a while. It's going to look different than you know myself coming in as just a sales associate, learning everything, learning how to sell things like that. You know, there's different training pass that you have to take people on, like you mentioned. And, yeah, if AI can get, can get into that and, you know, excel in creating more personable training for each individual, you know, in a in a quick manner, I think, I think that's great.

Jack McFarlane  13:41  
Yeah, yeah. Well, tell me about what's the next thing? What's the next big thing that AI is doing when it comes to HR?

Nick Schlemmer  13:48  
Sure, and I think the next big thing Jack would be, you know, internal mobility engines, you know, suggesting new roles to current employees at said company who have the right skills. And Jack, I want to point out, it's all about skills. I feel like in today's day and age, skills is overtaking, you know, I have this degree in so and so. What skills do you have? What extra certifications do you may have, but that internal mobility platform, that personalized platform is going to be able to help you hire within is another key component. I think that's important too in HR, is hiring within your own company. You have, you know, you have a job open up, and you have three or four different current employees who you feel that would be a good fit to maybe move into that role. These new mobility engines, these internal mobility engines, are able to suggest, hey, I think you know Joe may be more valued in this position, rather than who know Kathy or somebody you know, whoever it may be, it's able to pick out and probably give you suggestions as to who it thinks should fit into that role. 

Jack McFarlane  15:03  
Yeah. And I think the other big thing about it is it might suggest, you know, Nick, you're working in a department. It might suggest you for this new role that you would never even think about, right? And in 1000 years, it just wouldn't even pop in your mind to apply for this type of it might be in a different department. It might be a different title. That's a good point. You would just never think of it. But the AI might come to you and say, Hey, you're good at x, y and z. That matches this job perfectly, and it pays more. You should at least apply, you know. So it's able to be a second set of eyes, right? It's hard to always see the world through your point of view, because if you miss something once, you'll miss it every time. So the AI is like a second set of eyes, and that's where I really think these AIs that are looking for open roles are going to help the most is when it's jobs that you normally wouldn't even think about. But since the AI knows you, it knows you'd be really good at this, right? So we've, we've, I've hinted at a couple times here, right? The AI is getting to know you pretty well, and that is what is known as a digital twin. It's a very new risk that is involved with AI, and it's really up in the air on how to deal with it. All about what is the company's property versus what is yours when it comes to the AI? The best way I can describe is like this. Let's say you have an AI that you're working with Nick. Well, you're using this AI for everything. You're asking it questions, you're giving it answers, you're having it set your schedules. You're just using it in your everyday job. Eventually, this AI is going to pick up. This is what Nick does. This is what he knows. This is what he doesn't know. It's basically going to become you. So at what point you know? Why would the company not just fire Nick and keep the AI? The AI will do everything the same as Nick. It will do it in your style, it knows what you know, and you don't have to pay it like you pay Nick, right? So that's kind of the problem. There's a there's some ethics involved in this. Obviously, because it's HR, right, can't escape ethics. It's HR. So, so there's this risk of, you know, if you're the one training this, AI, even if you're doing it like you're not trying to train it, but you're just naturally it's becoming like you. It's knowing your patterns. Is that your property, or is it the company's, because it is the company's AI, right? So it's kind of a gray area, and it's, I don't know, it's definitely something to think about. I don't know if there's not, I don't think at least, right now, there is a right answer of, what do you do in a situation like that, where Nick just got fired because they're going to hire his AI to, you know, hire his AI to do his job. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is there. It's a very new scenario, right? What? What are your thoughts on that? What would you do?

Nick Schlemmer  18:05  
Jack, the first thing that comes to mind with the digital twin for me is, you know, entry level jobs. Me and you will be entering the workforce very soon, starting those careers that we hope to build on. You know, the building blocks, creating our foundation for what we hope our future to be, and if AI is learning just as fast as what we are with these entry level positions, I feel at risk. I feel like you would feel at risk the same way if a company doesn't want to keep 100 employees around all the time and they can put money elsewhere without having us and have our digital twin doing it for us, but maybe it's, you know, Nick's digital twin. But once I'm gone, they can name it whatever they want. They'll never know that it was me. It's just an AI at this point, because, like you said, there's that gray area with who owns the rights to what we're doing. So for me, I would just feel, I feel at risk of, you know, How stable is the job market going to be for us in these beginning years?

Jack McFarlane  19:07  
Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, a lot of the jobs, at least right now that AI is, you know, taking over. Are those either entry level? Because a lot, think about it, a lot of entry level jobs deal with the grunt work of whatever the industry is. It could be some sort of data. It could be busy work, scheduling stuff like that. It's all stuff that AI can do very well. 

Nick Schlemmer  19:33  
Alright, we're gonna take a quick break and come back with how Gen Z is changing HR.

Jack McFarlane  19:47  
All right, we are back, and we had a great segment, Nick, I'd say, on AI and how that's changing. HR, here's the second part of it, right, is Gen Z, and, yeah. These are things that we've talked about a lot, right, just throughout the the course of The Play by Play as a whole, we've mentioned at least once most of these things. So I don't think it's going to be anything too out there that, you know, no one's ever heard but still totally worth mentioning, right? Because as more and more of Gen Z is becoming, you know, eligible to join the workforce, these things are continuing to change. So first thing is, most young workers really care about what the company does socially. What are their values? What are their pillars? Stuff like that. We've said this multiple times, multiple multiple times. We're just reassuring you guys, this is a trend that is still going up, up, up. You know, a lot of young workers, especially in Gen Z, really care about what the company values are, what they do socially, what they do for the planet, stuff like that. So just something that we've seen increase over the four years, because I'm sure we've mentioned it throughout the years. So yeah, just a quick note there on that on.

Nick Schlemmer  21:08  
And Jack, I'll say something too on that here. And with both the digital training I've had for just sales jobs and also my internships, these the values and what they care about for these companies, they're shown to me right away, like as soon as, for example, my internship, as soon as we got on property that first day, we did introductions straight to what are their core values.

Jack McFarlane  21:37  
Yep.

Nick Schlemmer  21:38  
So I think, like you said, it's, it's only the trend is only going up.

Jack McFarlane  21:41  
Yeah, and same for me. I've had in every application, it says, right there in front you, for you to read all the company's values, all their pillars in every interview I've ever done, it's all been nice to meet you, introductions, values, before even interview questions. So yeah, it just, you know, really hammers home that point of you need to be very cautious, not cautious, but you need to be very aware of what your company actually stands for. Because if you're going to get young Gen Z workers, it has to be pretty good, you know, for most workers, for most workers.

Nick Schlemmer  22:19  
100% you know, they have to be transparent about, hey, this is what we believe in, and this is how we do it. And, you know, rolling right off of that transparency thing Jack another huge component of what Gen Z looks at. But honestly, I think what a lot of people look at is, you know, transparency and pay. You know, it's becoming the norm to know exactly what the salary range is. You know, they like to put range is this to this. A lot of times maybe that changes, especially in today's day and age. You may have something more to talk about that.

Jack McFarlane  22:54  
Yeah, I think that's a personally, that's a huge one for me, is when I was applying for all these jobs is, yeah, it'll say a range. And normally the range is, like, $2 to 700 million. Like, okay, that doesn't help. It's really nice to just know, like, just companies need to just be honest, especially an application, this is what you're going to make, right? Because you got to plan your whole life around this job, your finances, your where you can live, what you can afford, what you know, obviously, money is a huge part. So it's not, you know, gone are the days of Nick, Nick. Nick. What are you getting paid like? You know, very secretive is very out in the open, right? Any public company, you can see what anyone's making nowadays, especially at the top. So it's just this trend of companies, reputable companies, are not trying to hide the pay anymore, right? They're just like, oh, it pays 40,000 a year. Oh, pays 50,000 a year, pays $20 an hour, right? Whatever it is it needs, you need to be open and honest about it, because if you're lying about your pay or being very secretive, you're not going to get young workers. It's just not going to happen. So that's just another huge thing.

Nick Schlemmer  24:02  
100% and you know, whether or not they tell you that value up front, or maybe you have to go through a couple interviews just so they get to know you get to see your background, and then they give you a range. Still very important that it happens and it's accurate.

Jack McFarlane  24:17  
Yeah, and I'd say if you get through like two interviews, if you get to a third interview and they're still not giving you a pay, even at that point, you should have a range if they're not giving you Nick, this is our third interview. You know all about the job. They're obviously interested. It's your third interview. They should give you a specific pay, because you as the worker deserve to know. And personally, if I made it through three or four rounds and they still weren't giving me pay, I would just cut it off, because if they're wanting to hide that now, what are they going to hide later? So huge red flag if you're not transparent anymore. Another one is flexibility. I feel like those go hand in hand. For some reason, I always think pay and flexibility are kind of in the same ship, right? Yeah, this one's not as common. You know, it's not a huge red flag if your job is a nine to five every day of the week, but it's a it's more of a bonus, like, it'll be a lot easier to hire Gen Z employees. If you're like, hey, we've got flexible hours to maybe you're doing a master's right, a lot of Gen Z is graduating, a good amount is going to go in and on to higher, even higher education, right? Master's, doctorate, you can say, hey, you're able to work around your class schedule, or hey, you can work some odd days, like, maybe you work Tuesday through Saturday, I don't know, right? It just whatever that is, that's a huge draw for Gen Z. So if you're able to offer stuff like that, you're going to get a lot of Gen Z applications, applicants. Just a huge perk, perk to have if you're in HR and offering jobs.

Nick Schlemmer  26:00  
100% you know, it's just focusing more on, you know, getting work done versus you have to be here for eight hours a day. If it takes you five hours, takes you five hours, you know. But if you get everything done, it's done correctly, it's done well, I think Gen Z would be very attracted to a job that, you know, ties in that flexibility component, like you mentioned. 

Jack McFarlane  26:23  
Exactly, and then, you know, kind of going away from the hiring side, right? Because it's, like we said, there's a lot more to HR than hiring, and firing is just an overall, you know, reviews. That's a big part of of HR. Your your yearly review. It can, and a lot of companies determine your bonus if you get a raise, lots of things, promotion, whatever it might be, we're starting to see that that's changing to more of an instant feedback. You know, Gen Z has thought of, you know, I would say stereotyped a lot to be very short, not short fuse. But, you know, tick tock, very quick. Six seconds. Six seconds like.

Nick Schlemmer  27:01  
Yes.

Jack McFarlane  27:01  
Their attention span is very fast, and so we've kind of seen this trend of it's going to this fast, instant feedback. So, you know, HR is starting to have to develop along with that, right? You can't with a Gen Z employee, you just can't wait a whole year to give your feedback right they want to know right away. And especially because I would say I'm in that boat as well, like, if I was doing something wrong, I would want to know right away. I don't want to wait a year and then be like, You were really good at this Jack, but in category y you were pretty bad, here's where you can improve. Well, I would have preferred to know that seven months ago, right? So, yeah, it's this replacement of yearly reviews to just pretty instant feedback, which, I think, I think, personally, is a good trend. So maybe some. Yeah.

Nick Schlemmer  27:57  
I agree with you. I think the instant feedback could definitely help your employees and the employer in those areas of you're really excelling here, but we're kind of falling, falling behind in this other section, you know, I think right then and there, if we can address it, when you start to see, you know, a fall or something like that is great. I think the instant feedback is great for that. And then I don't know Jack, maybe this is just a me thing. I think always have the instant feedback. But also at the end of the year, why not still do you know that yearly review and just go over everything?

Jack McFarlane  28:34  
Yeah.

Nick Schlemmer  28:34  
As a whole. I do think, and I agree with you, the instant feedback is very important.

Jack McFarlane  28:39  
Yeah, I agree with you as well. Gosh, takes me 20 times to say I agree, but yeah, having that yearly review is nice. There are a lot of benefits to it, but don't save all your feedback for it, all right? And the final point I want to move into is something that you kind of mentioned earlier when it came to AI Nick, and that's your skills. I know you have some personal experience behind this, but HR, with Gen Z is looking for more of your specific skills or certifications stuff other than your traditional college degree, right? It's now gone beyond, if, we'll just be honest, a four year degree is not enough. It's great to have, but it's not enough. Right back in the day, 40 years ago, if you had a college degree, you're getting hired right away. That is not the case anymore. There are countless people that have been graduated for a year, year and a half, that still don't have jobs, because all they have is that degree, right? They haven't gone out of their way to do more certifications, they haven't gone to do other trainings, whatever it might be, and they're still looking for a job, right? Because companies are now focusing on these skills and other things on top of your degree. I know you have personal experience with this Nick, so why don't you tell us a bit about it? 

Nick Schlemmer  30:00  
Yeah, of course. You know, the job market has definitely shifted away from like you mentioned, just having that degree they want to see what makes you stand out. Why should we hire you over this other person? All these little things come from skills, extra certifications that you can get alongside with your four year degree or any experience you may have. And then, just for me personally, I can speak to, you know, PGM and everything that that entails, but you can get, you know, I'll get my four year degree in Professional Golf Management. But really, what makes you stand stand out in the country club, private industry is okay. What else do you have on top of that? Are you TrackMan certified? Are you, you know, PGA reach? Are you involved in that, all these different things you can either get involved in or, you know, take a short course on and test on and become certified in all these little areas, help you stand out that much more. And that's something that I've come to learn, that as far as my industry goes, people are looking for right away. They'll see your experience, great. They'll see you got your degree. Awesome. But have you done anything else outside?

Jack McFarlane  30:48  
And you you've done this like you've done a certification? Is that correct?

Nick Schlemmer  31:24  
Yeah, I am soft skill certified and technology certified in the state of Florida at my last internship. And those are both great. You know, it's not tied directly to golf per se. But those soft skills and technology skills can be applied to everything, every job, every job market, anything in that, in your everyday life. So it's great to have, whether it's even for say, a finance or an accounting thing, maybe it's a side certification in Excel or something like that. Huge can play a huge and their eye catching. That's the thing Jack. They're eye catching to these companies whenever they're looking through your resume or just asking about what you've done, soon as you mentioned something that they haven't heard before, or something else that you've done, that you did on your own time. Keyword there is your own time, their eyes light up. 

Nick Schlemmer  32:22  
Alright, guys, we are back with today's quote of the show, and I have a little bit to touch on here before I tell you the quote. You know, today we've talked about, you know, employees feeling valued, supported, motivated in their job, and how they better deliver results. They're more innovative, and they represent your company well whenever all these things are tied together. So in other words, you know, winning the marketplace isn't just about your strategy or what products you have, you know, it starts with investing in your people. So today's quote comes from Douglas Conant, a former CEO of Campbell Soup. He said, and I quote, to win the marketplace, you must first win the workplace. You must win who you are, who your company is, and that's your people, your employees, who you hire. Thank you guys, and bye for now.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai