Nick Schlemmer 0:00 The HR Happy Hour Network is proudly supported by Workhuman. We talk a lot on this show about where HR is headed, and one of the most exciting developments that I've seen lately is what Workhuman is doing with future leaders. Future Leaders is the first talent intelligence tool of its kind helping companies identify high potential VP plus talent already inside their organization up to four years before they would step into that role, and it's not based on gut instinct or visibility. Using real-time recognition data and proprietary AI, it reveals who's already influencing and elevating the people around them. Future leaders from Workhuman is setting a new standard for internal talent development. Learn more at Workhuman.com And thank you for joining us. Jack McFarlane 1:03 Hi everyone, and welcome to the HR Happy Hour Network. This is The Play by Play podcast, hosted by myself, Jack McFarlane, and Nick Schlemmer. Nick Schlemmer 1:10 Hey guys, how's it going? Jack McFarlane 1:13 Well, it is hard to believe, Nick, that it's been four years since we've talked about blue collar work, and that's shocking for two reasons. One, because blue collar work is such a huge, important part of the world. I mean, it literally makes the world go around. They're the most important jobs that doctor, teacher, most important jobs. We've only talked about it once, and it was four years ago. The other reason that's shocking is because where has the time gone. How is it? Nick Schlemmer 1:41 It doesn't feel like four years. Jack McFarlane 1:42 How has it been four years? So, with that being said, we are bringing on our in-house carpenter on speed dial, Jake Fortnite Adams, as we like to call him. He's been a carpenter for four and a half years. So, when we first had him on, he had just started. This is kind of like the reunion show. This is going to be a little bit of a catch up, so why don't you introduce yourself Jake. Jake Adams 2:06 Hey, I'm Jake. Of course, yeah, guys, time has flown by, but I have finished my apprenticeship, so I am officially a journeyman carpenter as of a couple months ago. So it's been a long time, guys. How are you? Jack McFarlane 2:20 And that's awesome. We want to be the first to congratulate you here at The Play by Play we support journeyman carpenters. Just so you know, I want to start this off before we get into any questions, and this is going to be for you as well, Nick, because I haven't - I've intentionally not showed you these statistics, because I also want to get your gut reaction. So, I've got a couple statistics about just overall blue collar work and Gen Z, all right, so I'm going to read them off, and then I want to hear your guys' thoughts, if anything is shocking, or if you agree. All right, yeah, so here we go. This is according to Simply Wise Trades and Technology Index. Is this first step? It says 52% of college students say skilled trades feel safer than office jobs in an AI-driven future. So, a little over half are saying that skilled trades feel like it's the safer way to go. The other three statistics I'm going to read come from a resume template survey, that is where the survey came from. All right, first one, this is probably the most jarring, shocking to me is that of this Gen Z participants, 60% say they plan to pursue a career in a blue collar field in 2026 which is like, wow, I mean, 60% that's a lot, but what if that's people that didn't go to college, right? That's a common path you know about a college, you do blue collar. Right. Well, same survey, 50% of those people have a degree and are still planning on pursuing a blue collar career. So they went to college for four years, got out and decided, I'm going blue collar. Shocking. Last stat here, 30% of young adults, this is from they classified age 18 to 29, now viewed trade school or an apprenticeship as the path most likely to deliver financial stability by the age of 30. Compare that to the same study found that 23% believe that four year college is the way to go when it comes to financial stability. So blue collar has taken over. I would love to hear your guys' reactions. I know, for me, I mean, I agree with it. I don't know what else to say, like I think that is the smart thing to do. I want to hear it from you guys. Jake Adams 4:29 Yeah, 100% I mean, with the way technology is controlling the future at this point, people are scared, you know, unemployment, you know, not financially stable. AI is just going to take their job anyway, so they're going to be clearing offices, they're going to be clearing spaces for, you know, data centers, stuff like that, which actually I've happened to build a couple data centers, so really. Jack McFarlane 4:51 They're pushing people towards carpentry and taking their jobs. Jake Adams 4:55 Trying to get them to join, but, uh, yeah, that's that's a not a surprising statistic for me, but the fact that 50% of Gen Z college students who have gone to college and are still choosing to go, I mean, that's that's insane to me. I mean, they already put the money, the effort, the time in. Jack McFarlane 5:15 Right? Jake Adams 5:15 I mean, they would.. I feel like, for me personally, I would have to be at rock bottom, not finding any jobs. Jack McFarlane 5:21 Yeah. Jake Adams 5:21 If I went to college and put all that effort in just to go straight to blue collar. Jack McFarlane 5:25 Yeah. And I can speak to that for a second. And Nick, and I are very fortunate. I got a job right after college. Nick will have one right after college, thanks to his internships in the program. Most people our age, that is not the case. They are going months, years, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. I work in HR technology. A lot of that has to deal with hiring, so I see a lot of the behind the scenes when it comes to hiring, and for better or worse, AI is helping and hindering job applications, and people just are not getting hired at the rate that they would expect, and have maybe been, you know, misled to a point throughout their lives growing up, right. We're told, go to college, get a job, go to college, get a job. That is not the case anymore. So, I think a lot of people are realizing one, blue collar pays fantastic. I know you can speak to that in a little bit, Jake. And two, I mean, not that it's a last resort, but if I even have the thought, like, if I can't find a job after college, I would go blue collar, because it pays fantastic, and I think it's super rewarding, like working with your hands and stuff. Again, I'll let you speak to that, Jake, but let's jump, Nick. I want to hear your initial thoughts as well. Nick Schlemmer 6:39 For sure, the one stat that that struck me the most, Jack, was was the last one, and, and what was that percentage again for students who, yeah, yeah. Jack McFarlane 6:50 34% were saying they view blue collar as the financial stability, like is the best path, compared to 23% as a four year degree. Nick Schlemmer 7:00 And the way I thought about that was, Jack, you know, you mentioned myself during the internships, you know, throughout college, it's still not a big thing I feel like for to send college students out on internship and get hands on, so I think that's kind of where that percentage is coming from, it's like they're going to jump into blue collar, and that's their quote unquote internship that's gonna lead them to feel more financially stable by the time they're 32. So, like, for me, like, although I may not be making that amount right away, I feel like the internship, like, secured some sort of stability for me, you know, being able to do it for the last four years, so that kind of struck interesting to me, is like maybe kids are viewing as they got their degree, not all degrees, they'll require you to go out in the field, so they're trying to get field work, so they're thinking, let's just go straight to blue collar. Jack McFarlane 7:52 You know, I didn't think about it, so you're saying like they got their degree, now they're going to go do blue collars to 30, or whatever it is, 35 get the hands on experience, then couple them together and make that full time job,. Nick Schlemmer 8:09 100% they can utilize both, both avenues, and you know, and blue collar, Jake, I'm sure you're able to network with people, whether it's the different companies you're working with, or you know, the whoever owns the building or construction that you're doing, there's a lot of opportunities that tie into it for what an internship highlights, but you could also tie that into blue collar work as well. So that was interesting. Jack McFarlane 8:34 Yeah, that's a great point. Jack McFarlane 8:36 Yeah, so like we said in the beginning, Jake, because now we're gonna get, I'm gonna start grilling you with questions, okay. That's our job. But it's been four years, right? A lot has changed. At the time, you had been working for six months. Since then, you've not only moved companies, but you've moved to locations. You've had a lot of different experience and a lot of different jobs. Is there anything that you've noticed as maybe a trend might not be the right word, but just over the last four years, when it comes to carpentry specific, because that's obviously what you can speak on, is there anything that you've noticed become more popular, or even with just people our age getting into the trade, because obviously when you started, you were the youngest. There was no one your age starting. Yes. So, is there anything that you've noticed like that? Jake Adams 9:25 For people our age, especially Gen Z, I mean, I've noticed a very, very high trend. If I guess that isn't the word, but something that catches on quick with younger guys is their work ethic. You know, these guys know they're coming in, they know they're coming into hard work, and it's just long, it's a long day. They already know what they're in for, but they're ready to go. So, it's very nice to see that guys our age, and you know, younger, even, you know, I was four years ago 18, they're ready to go, and it's a great thing, because blue collar has been hurting for people for years, and it's actually starting to be on the up that you know there's going to be a start of a mass influx of Gen Z going into blue collar, especially according to those statistics that you guys are ready to go, you know, they've they're choosing their career, they're choosing their life path, and financial stability or not, they're ready to go in and go to work. Jack McFarlane 10:20 Yeah, and I think that actually goes against what a lot of people say about Gen Z. I think the stereotypes dying, but the whole idea that they're lazy, they don't want to work. Like, I am glad, and I'm not shocked that it's that's not the case. First of all, I'm not.. I think heavily against that. There's obviously outliers, but it is nice to see that, you know in your firsthand experience that Gen Z is coming in super strong, ready to take control, ready to, you know, get to brass tacks, essentially, like even if it's, and I'm sure you can speak to this, even if it's the sucky jobs picking up the trash, doing, yeah, blue collar things that we're not going to mention on the podcast, because we're going to keep it PG, not PG13, but that is really refreshing to hear. Is there anything with, like, from technology standpoint, I know that's very, very new into Blue Collar, that that the AI and technology is starting to move over. I'm just curious, have you seen any of that personally, or just kind of heard rumors? Jake Adams 11:28 You actually make a great point, because there were a couple times where I was up in Nebraska, and they actually had me running some work, and the way that technology is coming into blue collar is actually genius. So the way they're coming in is most of the time you see guys running jobs will either have a tablet now or a phone or something that they can access computers, stuff that they can access immediately on site without any trouble, and blueprints, anything you need, schematics, you know, whatever they need, they can open this tablet, they could go to whatever app they're using for blueprints, tap buttons, look exactly. You can go into detailed plans, you can go into anything you need to see immediately, right there on the spot, without having to go through these, because most of the time plans and blueprints are all these big, big papers, you know, four or five foot papers by three foot, and you're just flipping through pages, but instantly you can tap what you need to see and get right into it, so it's, it's pretty genius. Jack McFarlane 12:27 Yeah, Jake, you brought up something really interesting that I maybe there is no answer for, right? It is so early, like they're just now using tablets and stuff like that, but on our show we talk a lot about AI, I think everyone does, it's, you know, it can be frustrating, so much AI, but have you seen any use of AI in your field yet, or is that brand new, like not even being done? And if it hasn't been done in a perfect world, what would you like to see done with it? Like, if you could use AI in your job, what would you want it to do? Jake Adams 12:59 In my personal experience, I've not seen any AI on the field, on the job site, you know, most of the time everything is mostly man, it's all manpower, and especially when it comes to blueprints and stuff, it's just making it, you know, it's more of a quality of life change, so when it comes to AI, if I were to maybe even have something, it would be more for like superintendents, people who are up on top, asking like need questions like immediately, that way they can, you know, hey, let's say our foundation is whatever out of square, it's cracking, whatever, they need a quick fix, they could go straight to AI and be like, hey, this needs to be solved now before other trades get in here, what can we do to fix this quickly, but most of the time, most of the guys up in superintendent positions have that knowledge, they've had 20-30 years, so they know how to get right on it anyways. But. Jack McFarlane 13:49 Yeah, and that makes sense. That makes sense. Nick Schlemmer 13:53 100% And Jake, I would like to kind of touch on, you know, you've been doing this for over four years now, and I would love to touch on your, your journey, you know, the evolution of from when you started to, to where you're at now, being in carpentry, for you know, our listeners who may not know what, what four years looks like, being being in a union for a carpenter, like, how has it evolved since day one versus four and a half, four years into it. Jake Adams 14:20 You know, starting out, I was scared. You know, I was young, right out of high school. I didn't really know if I wanted this to be my career or not. So, those first couple of years were kind of testing the waters, and if I could even survive in this, and you know, after a couple summers in, you kind of, you kind of figure out if you're meant for it or not, because you, you'll start. I know Gen Z is, you know, ready to get in there, but sometimes you'll have guys that are like, I can't, I can't do this, you know. Jack McFarlane 14:46 It's tough. Jake Adams 14:46 Weather is crazy sometimes, work expectations are crazy, but I mean, if you stick through it, it's great, because, you know, my third or fourth year things started to become a routine, you know, waking up or getting to work, getting the job site, we're. Ready to go. It was definitely a struggle at first, though. So it is. It's hard work, for sure. The weather is always going to be against you, except for maybe the beginning of the year and towards fall, and you're going to be expected to work, you know. And whenever you, Jack, going back to your point, where they say people you know, Gen Z is lazy. I haven't seen that personally, but I have also ran into guys that, you know, they'll do a little bit of work, they'll go, they'll play on their phone, you know, break a holics, I like to call them, but Jack McFarlane 15:34 I like it, that's a good word. Jake Adams 15:36 Most of the guys I've met, great guys, you start to make friends, you start to make very important connections with people, because I actually had an interview with our home, my hometown, you know, our hometown, to work as an inspector for the city. Now, unfortunately, the negative of that is I'm pretty young, you know, most guys aren't really going to listen to me whenever you have a guy that has the experience that's older, and but whenever you get into carpentry, you know, my four years, I see that as my career, my future, you know. So, after four years, I'm taking a look at, I'm a journeyman now, where can I go from here? And there's always room for growth, you know. I could go into running work, I could be a superintendent and run a whole job site, I could teach at the school and teach new generations of carpenters, I could, I could quit and start my own business, you know. Where do I want to see my.. and that's where I want to see myself, you know. Let's say five years, but the journey for carpentry.. Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. Jack McFarlane 16:36 I was just gonna say the possibilities are very endless, like there is a lot you can do it, is you know, those first couple years you're just laying the groundwork, and you can go anywhere, like you could actually do anything. So that's just the point I was gonna say, Jake Adams 16:52 Exactly. And I completely agree, because through these four years I've learned so many irreplaceable skills, you know, and especially if stuff happens at your house, or friends, family, I have life skills that I could, you know, I could save them 1000s of dollars by just going in and helping, you know, and it, it's very knowledgeable, it's a very fulfilling, satisfying career path, and I wouldn't change it for the world. I'm very happy with where I'm at. So, four years in, I'm very happy with my career path. Jack McFarlane 17:26 Still going strong. Yeah, so hasn't got you yet. Jake Adams 17:29 No, it hasn't got me yet. Jack McFarlane 17:31 I want to talk to a point that you said when you were saying the inspection, right? Yeah, you are young, obviously. We all are. Gen Z is just a young generation, and sometimes that can have a negative effect, for a lack of a better term. Do you see that often in your work, just every day? Do you ever experience like some sort of ageism? Is what I would say, because I know in my role I'm talking to business owners all the time, they are much older than I mean, okay? For anyone listening, much older means you're like 40. All right, I love you all. You're all fantastic. Feel free to hit me up. Let's get some business done. But I could also feel like, why are they going to listen to me? I'm so much younger, I don't have the experience. Do you feel the same way, or has it been very inviting, very inclusive? Jake Adams 18:21 So it really depends on who you're working with, like there are some guys that are maybe 30 and they still treat me like I'm a kid, you know, but then there are guys that are, you know, 40s, 50s, getting ready to retire, and they're like my best friend, you know, they take everything I say, they listen to it, and they still give Mike advice, like, you know, there's, here's the reasons why. If we did it your way, it would take just this little bit longer, or if we did it this way, it wouldn't, it wouldn't be the same product. But, you know, guys my age, our age, they're out there, they're taking advice like candy, you know, they'll listen, they'll, we bounce off each other, which is nice. So, when it comes to ageism, I would say it's really that 30 to 40 range, where like hey, let's say let's do it this way, and they're like no, they just tell you no, it came out of my mouth, so wow, there I have seen it firsthand, in fact I'm actually working for a guy who does really like it his way, or you can go home. Jack McFarlane 19:19 Yeah, so that can be tough, but in that older generation you have seen now we call it reverse mentoring, is basically you know when you might say something that the 50 year old has never thought of doing and it's like oh my gosh that's that's genius why are we not doing that there is a level of that on the job site, it's not just the stereotypical, you are going to sit down, well, not theoretically sit down, you're going to do what you're told, and you're not going to question it. And when you're 50 and you've been working this for 30 years, you then make the rules. It's not like that for the most part, you'd say? Jake Adams 19:55 Not for the most part anymore. I know I'm going through the schooling system, you have guys that have been doing this for years, it's even to even get the job to 10 year minimum of even being in carpentry, but yeah, I would say they really grew up with the mentorship of you're gonna bite your tongue and if you yell at me, I'm just gonna bark here, I'm gonna bite your head off and you're gonna do what I told you to do, raise, so it is definitely changed for the better of, hey, let's do it this way, you know, what, that's a great idea, I think we should do that, yeah, and you get that co-compatibility of that good healthy work environment of getting stuff done progressively. Nick Schlemmer 20:35 I think it just comes with, you know, the different generations phasing into work and or phasing out of work, the generation, which is surprising, that you mentioned that it was the younger generation, actually, who was the no, I would have thought that was the older generation, you know, who grew up with this is how you do it, and that's it, there's no other way to do it, but with ever with technology and everything changing nowadays, it's really struck interesting to me that it was people who were in the middle of their life, in their middle of their career, who are being sticklers about it and declining right away. Jack McFarlane 21:11 I almost feel like it's because it's so interesting, because people think white collar, blue collar are so different, but at the core of it, it's the same, because it's the same type of stuff in office, and I feel like the younger, well, let's say medium generation, guys and gals that are in their 30s and 40s, their mentorship when they entered was, you are going to bite your tongue and you're going to sit down, shut up, and do what you're told. Yeah, well, this older generation that is about to retire, they are very much, we went through that, and it sucked. We are the change. Let's change it for the better. So, we're the first generation that is getting this reverse mentorship, very collaborative. So, I almost feel like, as if some of those people are like, maybe jealous isn't the right word, but jealous about, like, whoa, that's not what we had. Why do they get this right? Why are they so special? And it's just fascinatng that it's in white collar and blue collar. It blows my mind, because people always try and separate it, like it's so different. And at the core, it's really not. So. Jake Adams 22:13 At the same time, just to touch on that, most of these older guys, you know, 45 to the 55 range, where they're ready to retire, you know, they've already got one foot out the door, so I mean it doesn't matter what you say, you sometimes things go in one ear out the other, but. Jack McFarlane 22:29 That's a fair point, that's a good caveat in there, is like maybe they just don't want to deal with it, they don't do it your way, Jake, fine. Jake Adams 22:37 I did work with a guy in Nebraska who probably, you know, later 30s, older than me, but like we would be, we were doing this nice specialty ceiling, you know, finished product, and he would just kind of look at me, be like, "Yeah, you're in charge, man, take, go for it, really, okay. Well, so it's pretty funny to see how some guys really are just like that's that's all you, and then there's other guys that are like, you know, you're gonna do like that, and I'm gonna watch you do it, and if you do it wrong because you're not doing it the way I would do it, I will kill you. Basically, it's.. it's really just depends on who you're working with and how they were taught up, so. Jack McFarlane 23:21 That makes sense. Nick Schlemmer 23:23 100%. And Jake, I would actually, I would love to circle back to a point that we made earlier in the show, when, when we were talking about how Gen Z is ready to hop into this line of work, and they know what they expect. As you're continuing your journey, you know, you said it's a 10 year process, right, to get to quote unquote the what's the end that you know, what's the top level that you would reach in your? Jake Adams 23:49 I mean, I would honestly say, yeah, it's probably about 10 years before people start considering you for superintendent, you know, somebody who's ready to get up in there and watch everybody. Nick Schlemmer 23:58 So being so hands on leading up to that point of being the superintendent, I've seen it in my industry where we're ready to work, we jump in, and at those down times we go crazy, like there's nothing to do, we didn't expect this, whereas your industry, you know exactly what you're expecting when you start, so as you progress, do you ever see people kind of hold back because they don't want to be the guy just with the tablet and watching, they actually want to be hands on, working, making the time go by. Like, what do you think about that? Jake Adams 24:32 I have seen that, and you know, I've had many conversations with other guys where not everybody is born to be a leader, you know, most guys want to go in, go home, you know, go in, get the job done, go home, they don't have to worry about it. You know, I was one of those guys when I first started, but the same rate, like the days, feel like they dragged for me now, because, like, I'm doing grunt work, I'm lifting heavy things, you know, I'm killing my body, and I'm ready to, I feel like I can do more, and that's, that's more of a personality trait of mine than anything else. I was, I was raised to always be working to have that go-get-it mindset, so it definitely, you do definitely run into those guys that are like, "No, man, I'm dude, I don't want to touch it. That's all you like." So, most foremen work.. I'll tell you this now. Most foremen and most superintendents are the guys who didn't want to do the job in the first place, you know. Do you, yeah, they know they can do it, they know they can take the charge, they know they can be a leader. But obviously, at the end of the day, whenever you're a foreman or superintendent, when you're off, you're not really off, you've got people calling you, you've got material getting delivered, you've got plans of different trades coming in, you've got schedules, you've got everything that you have to take care of, and it's just people, not everybody's made to do that, not everybody can handle that kind of workload. Jack McFarlane 25:55 That makes sense. I mean, it's, it's, it's tough work, even if you're not the one hammering the nails every day, there's a lot to do managing, so I want to wrap it up here, Jake. Before we say a thank you for your time, it's been fantastic. I've got one final question. Let's say you were able to go back in time, give yourself some advice, and maybe just some advice to anyone looking to start in blue collar, because as we've seen it's becoming more and more popular. What would be your one, maybe two sentence just piece of advice for anyone looking to get into blue collar? Jake Adams 26:32 My advice would be what I was told when I was first starting. It's hard work, long days, but it's satisfying, and if you like working with your hands, it's great, and most people don't do it for the money, because if you're doing it for the money, you might as well get out. You have to enjoy what you're doing, so if you enjoy working with your hands, it's definitely a great career path for you. Jack McFarlane 26:58 Amazing. Couldn't, couldn't have said it better myself, and I probably wouldn't have said it better. So, I'm glad you said we just want to thank you so much, Jake. Maybe in another four years we'll get you back on your fast track to superintendent. We'll just have to see, you know. So, we appreciate you coming on, and yeah, thank you so much, dude. Jake Adams 27:17 Hey, of course, thank you guys for having me. I'm more than happy to have you guys pick my brain for a little bit, so. Jack McFarlane 27:24 Awesome. Well, we're gonna take a quick break, guys, and then we'll be right back with everyone's favorite, you know, quote of the show. Nick Schlemmer 27:37 Back with the quote of the show, wrapping up today's episode. Jack, this was a really fun episode to make, and more. It was very informative. I loved it. Jack McFarlane 27:46 Yeah, I, you know, I know we're gonna learn all the time on this show. We do every episode, and yet it still shocks me how much I learn every time. I have this expectation of, oh yeah, I'm gonna learn some stuff, but it blows blows expectations out of the water every time. So, I mean, what a fun episode. Such a good guy. Nick Schlemmer 28:03 It really was. And to finish off today, Jack, I've got a good quote for you, and it was from Yowira Farber. Jack McFarlane 28:12 Okay, let's hear it. Nick Schlemmer 28:14 He said, and I quote, 'Dream big, stay positive, work hard, and enjoy the journey', all different points that Jake kind of touched on throughout today's. I was just working hard. What a mention, he mentioned enjoying the journey. It's not for the money, it's for the journey. So I thought it tied in really well. Jack McFarlane 28:32 I think that's fantastic. What a quote, just delivering every time. Wow, wow. Nick Schlemmer, ladies and gentlemen. Nick Schlemmer 28:40 I appreciate that. Jack McFarlane 28:41 Quote of the show. I mean, this is episode off the top of my head, it's in upper 40s, we're getting close to 50, we really are, and you have not missed a quote yet. Maybe, maybe you're waiting for episode 50 to finally have a bad one, kind of do an opposite type of thing. I don't know, so. Nick Schlemmer 28:59 Hopefully I can keep the trend going. Jack McFarlane 29:01 I'm sure you will, I'm sure you will. Thank you all for listening. We hope you were able to learn a lot. We'll have his information in the bio of this. If you are curious and want more questions, feel free to reach out to him, because he is our blue collar expert. So, thank you again. We hope you enjoyed. Seriously. Nick Schlemmer 29:21 Yeah. Thank you for listening. You know, me and Jack, we love bringing in and tying in these totally different episodes than than what you guys may be used to hearing every every month. So we love it. We hope you guys do. Thank you for listening. And bye for now. Transcribed by https://otter.ai