Steve 0:09 The HR Happy Hour Network is proudly supported by Workhuman. We talk a lot on this show about where HR is headed. One of the most exciting developments I've seen lately is what Workhuman is doing with Future Leaders. Future Leaders is the first talent intelligence tool of its kind, helping companies identify high potential VP plus talent already inside their organization up to four years before they step into the role, and it's not based on gut instinct or visibility. Using real-time recognition data and proprietary AI, it reveals who's already influencing and elevating the people around them. Future Leaders from Workhuman is setting a new standard for internal talent development, and you can learn more at Workhuman.com. Thanks for joining us! Steve 0:58 Welcome back to the System of Records Show. My name is Steve Boese. We are excited today to talk about certainly the latest technology, like we always do on System of Record, but maybe more importantly, today, how organizations are adapting to all the changes and all the disruption and the transformation that's coming to all of us in the AI era, if you will. We have two wonderful guests to help us navigate through some of these questions. We have Dave Wright; he is the chief innovation officer at ServiceNow. Dave, welcome. Good morning. How are you? Dave Wright 1:34 Thanks, Steve. I'm doing well. Thanks for having us on. Steve 1:36 Yeah, it's great to see you. And we have Brian Solis. He is the head of global innovation at ServiceNow, also frequent author and speaker, it's been been just a just a great source of inspiration and education on digital topics forever. Great to see you, Brian. How are you? Brian Solis 1:54 Well, thank you again for having us, Steve. It's good to see you. Steve 1:57 Yeah, and I it's great to see you. And I'll say, Dave and Brian are the co-authors of a new book. It's called Infinite: How Visionary Leaders Transform Today's Businesses into AI-Forward Companies. I'm glad you held that up, Byan. For anybody who's watching this on video, one of my comments in my in my handwritten notes was, "I love the cover design of that book. I think that looks so cool. Brian Solis 2:20 Thank you! Dave and I were pretty pretty involved in not just the writing of the book, obviously, but also the design, because a book is something that we still hold precious, and it should be experiential in a world where your brain naturally wants to go into more visual cues as you're as you're consuming information as defined by these devices. Dave Wright 2:43 It was kind of kind of a new thing for me because obviously Brian's written many books, but this was my first one. But I didn't even know that as a as an author you'd be involved in that kind of design decision. Brian Solis 2:53 Well, you're normally not; just Dave Wright 2:55 Oh, okay. Steve 3:00 You got lucky, Dave. I guess. Well, I did. I did note that, man. I really love the cover design of that book. I'm a book guy. I'm a bit of a book nerd and design nerd. I still like the physical books. I was, you know, reading a couple different books all weekend, and I was like, oh, and I saw it when I was doing my notes for today, and I was looking on the, you know, the Amazon page for the book, I'm like, wow, that's a cool cover. So, well done on that. But beyond book design, we'll cover that on my other podcast. You know, paperback book covers and the legends behind them. We want to talk about how this... Brian, I'll start with you. You've been writing and speaking on these kinds of topics for a long time. How is AI different to you in your mind, and require maybe a different response from organizations to to be successful with it, to adapt to it? How is AI just different than I don't know, you know, the internet or mobile or the half a dozen other things that really have changed work, you know, in the last 15 or 20 years? Brian Solis 4:03 Dave and I-I'm sure Dave has a lot to say here too. This this is actually the the inspiration behind the book, because what we noticed is that it is it is profoundly different than any technology revolution that has come before it. However, most leaders are treating it like every tech revolution that's come before it, and that is to be given. We're all human. We we all have businesses to run. Those businesses have certain measures and standards that that they have to uphold. Many of them are are are governed on a quarter to quarter basis, and all that that includes. But what makes it different is that its potential to unlock net new value with the right mindset, the right thinking, the right activities. AI can become a force multiplier. I'm sure that's a word that's been thrown around a lot, but. It can also augment human capacity to achieve net new outputs. So you can do more, you can do things faster, you can do things more efficiently. But that's yesterday's work. Now, with human and machine collaboration, with the right leadership, the right mindset, the right imagination, you can actually now do what you couldn't do yesterday, and I think that's where all possibility can be unlocked. And that that is the the premise of infinite. And I'm sure Dave has something he'd like to add too. Dave Wright 5:35 So I think the difference around AI as opposed to a lot of other technologies is, and me and Brian discuss this all the time. AI changes the things that change things. So, so all this different technology you have out there that's working for the business anyway, AI has an influence on that. So, AI can influence workflows. AI can influence organizational structure design. AI can influence how you think about managing the data that you've got in a system, but the the problem that most people have in most organizations is they look at AI and go, oh, this is a new technology. How do I apply this technology to my business? When the real question is, how do you modify your business to that technology? Because because this isn't about putting a new tool in place. This is about thinking: Is my business optimized to run in the 21st century now this technology's arrived, as opposed to just saying, "Hey, we could we could do what we did before, but we could do it faster and better. Steve 6:36 Yeah, and that's a pretty big shift, right? Because if for folks like us, we've all been doing this kind of stuff for a while, right? And we're used to taking a new technology, assessing it, trying to apply it to existing, as you said, workflows or systems architectures, or maybe even now it's a new thing, right? We can now take off the paper stacks that were everywhere, right, in the past, and and this was great, right? We maybe got faster, we reduced error rates, we helped people's jobs get a little better and have a little bit more fun, but certainly probably not the transformation that lots of organizations either expected or maybe were promised, even right in say big ERP or other transformations. In the book, you guys talk about this concept of the infinite company, which is a really cool kind of metaphor, I guess. But I'd I'd love for you to maybe describe that a little bit. What do you mean by that? And how does a how do leaders in an organization need to really think a little bit more broadly and expansively before they just dive into, Hey, let's throw an AI pilot at the wall? Dave Wright 7:47 So, I think Brian kind of kicked off this as a discussion before when he was talking about how people use AI to to do what they could do before. For us, most people most people that I have conversations with, and I'm sure it's the same for Brian. Most people are in this iteration trap where they they know what they do from a business perspective, and they're just like, "Oh, how can we do more of it? How can we do it faster?" Regardless of whether it's better, just how can I do more of it? What the infinite company is about is is taking this step back and getting people to realize that your your AI strategy shouldn't be about AI. You should have a a company strategy that you want to achieve, and and when you define what that vision is, maybe it's building a new product, maybe it's moving into a new geography, maybe it's expanding into a different segment. The key is to then say, well, what stops me doing that? And it might be it might be resources, which could be financial; It could be people; but then how do I how do I use AI in other parts of the organization to create that space to then allow me to do that new element of the business? And it's that that constant reinvention and that constant capability of being able to go after the next thing is what allows your company to be infamous, as opposed to saying, "Well, how do I just automate this specific task?" And then everyone saved 10 minutes a day, but we've achieved absolutely nothing. Brian Solis 9:12 That's exactly right, Dave. the The most interesting thing that Steve, Dave and I hear when we speak with executives is a natural tendency to need to solve yesterday's problems. Yeah, they're being measured by how well they solve yesterday's problems. How much can they take out in terms of costs and unnecessary resources? How can they scale that work? And that pressure is very real. That pressure is coming all the way from the top, all the way from boards, all the way from the market for publicly traded companies. But no customer, if we think about it this way, no customer is asking to have a call deflected to a chat bot. If we think about. The actual market needs better experiences, better products, better service. We can look at these possibilities as drivers to complement modernizing and optimizing yesterday's businesses, to think through how can we create new value with AI that we haven't talked about before, and so so Dave and I also have these types of conversations. But it's a very different it's a very different starting point on that side. We have to help our customers. We have to help executives understand that we can do more than what they're asking us for, and in some cases, with the psychology of an engagement, we can help them see that they can ask different questions to get there on their own. And this this is so important because what we're really saying is that message is likely not going to come from the top, except for exceptional organizations with exceptional, innovative leadership. What we see the the the biggest opportunity is where, say, a CIO or a COO or one of their direct reports is pushing to think about this as a career defining moment to have the conversations internally before they come to us, for example, to say what are we not thinking about? We need to do this, but where can we create new value to push up within our organization to say, you know, there's more than we can. There's more than we can do here. Dave Wright 11:34 It's definitely it's definitely a question. When you go into a lot of organizations, people are asking how can we do this or how can we do that? It's it's getting that mind shift, and sorry, not plugging another one of Brian's books, but getting that mind shift to uh to be able to say, well, it's not a how question; it's a why question. It's why do we do this? Because most things that you design in most organizations are designed around the limited capacity of people, not not the limited capacity intellectually, the the limited capacity as in the number of people you've got. So if you if you define all these workflows and all these ways of working based on the fact you either haven't got enough resources or you want to make sure that every resource does something in the same way, when you're suddenly faced with an abundance of resource, when you've got artificial intelligence being able to do things. Are those workflows going to be correct, or or is this the time to truly reinvent your business. Brian Solis 12:29 That's such an important point, Dave, and one of the things that we realized was that we couldn't just write a book about this concept of an infinite business, which just to kind of take a step back is is it doesn't mean boundless in size. It just means that it's... Steve 12:50 or even in focus. I'd imagine you're right, right? Brian Solis 12:53 Exactly, and and and you can help us with the next book now, Steve. You you've been drafted, but the the idea is that it's really if you have boundless capacity, capability, adaptability, intelligence, possibility. You know, what can you do differently? And so, what when when Dave talked about you know not just making a workflow more efficient, but assessing whether or not it's the right workflow to achieve the desired outcome, what are the outcomes we're not even considering, and what we we tasked ourselves with was going through like what does that look like? What does going through a workflow look like? And it was it was very difficult, but not impossible. But it was very difficult because today, and and and this is this is Dave's analogy because it actually works really well, and I've held onto it. When you think about a workflow, it's typically vertical within an organization because organizations are siloed. Work-data, for anything to go across a silo is where things start to become incredibly difficult. But that is exactly where AI unlocks up opportunities, it can go across. It could go horizontally across an enterprise, and so was while we were thinking about reimagining a workflow, it wasn't just a process or data. It was about how an organization works itself, and so we had this concept where we said, well, somebody's got to be responsible for that, and it's probably not going to be the CIO. And so we we came up with this role that we outlined and defined at depth of a chief workflow officer, and that I think is sort of what brings to life what Dave was talking about. Steve 14:39 Yeah, and I think that's a really great concept, Brian and Dave, because that's how work gets done, right? Through workflows, right? Typically, whether they're brokered by systems or they're managed completely by people who are, you know, connecting with each other in the organization and managing how work gets done, and I think that requires maybe a little bit of a boost from the AI who doesn't have those. I don't know. Just but the AI doesn't care that. Well, the marketing department really doesn't like to work with the you know production department all that well, right? Or they traditionally have had butted heads over this or that, right? The AI doesn't care about that, and perhaps can even help the organization break down some of those barriers that's required. Right, Dave Wright 15:29 The thing that the thing that AI almost never has when it makes a decision is it never has context. So so it can look at it can look at what's happened based on previous history of how many times something has happened, but it doesn't necessarily know all the nuance that sits in the background, and that's that's one of the things that changes what people's function becomes in this world. Because when you talk about AI replacing people, this is much more of a an augmentation where you start to use either specialists that have got deep knowledge to be able to to look at those exceptions, or you look at swapping management round to be much more around the the coordination of a hybrid workforce, and then again you've got these frontline employees who are again being augmentated from a skill perspective, so now they can do things they couldn't do before. That that's something that has to be considered when you look at the whole org design side of things. Steve 16:26 And I feel like this now can become even in 15 or so minutes we've been talking. I feel like that that maybe the the fear that could be out there from folks could be that this sounds very complicated. Like I understood how to take a new technology in the past and apply that to my business processes, or upgrade a system, or you know upskill some folks on a new tool, and therefore, as we've talked about, get a little bit faster at processing X, Y, or Z. These transformations sound a little bit more complicated and perhaps a little bit more fundamental. What are some of the ways, Dave and Brian, or I'd love for you to to share some thoughts on when you're talking to customers, or if you were talking to a new new prospect even about this? Like, what are some of the ways we can make these kinds of transformations and these big changes a little bit more manageable, so that hey, I get this, and we can do this without you know if that's a fair question. Dave Wright 17:30 Yeah, I I think it is. I mean, I I'll kick it off, but I know Brian's got a a lot of views around this as well. A lot of this comes down to you know we talked at the at the part at the top of this conversation around this isn't about deploying technology. You know, this is this is much more of a of a an organizational deployment than it is a technology deployment, and a lot of it comes down to culture within the company. So, so one of the one of the things that I think is really interesting is allowing allowing a challenge culture to develop. So there's a there's a concept that can happen where AI becomes a bit emperor's new clothes, and you deploy AI, and everyone's like, "Oh, we're deploying AI. That's great, but you haven't got the capability to be able to question what's happening with it. So I think you have to build in the company. You have to build this trust framework where you have to be able to speak honestly about what's working and what's not working. Because the organization, if you don't do that, will will scale the errors, not the intelligence, and it'll end up being less productive than it was before. So so you have to you have to drive it from the top down, but you have to build this trust framework where people can provide feedback and where the the subject matter experts get inputs into why things are happening a certain way. So, so my two things would be start at the top and think about the culture, and then the technology comes into play after that. Brian Solis 18:59 Culture is probably one of the most underrated assets of any organization because it's a squishy topic. But in in working with folks like Jason Korman, the CEO of Gaping Void for many years, their whole company is about treating culture as a management system. So it's actually a construct and a process and a methodology, and if you if you think about you think about where companies excel, it's a it's usually the same the same brands like Apple, various stages of Nike's life. You have Netflix. These are companies that have reinvented themselves over time, and that's a leadership-led initiative. It becomes the culture of the organization to achieve those those outcomes. One of the one of the things that we're we're calling for in the book is an infinite leader, wherever they might come from, or. Group of infinite leaders to come together to to challenge their own conventions while still making the business of yesterday better tomorrow. But we're we're also looking for longevity here because now we have a world in which there are multiple types of cultures trying to drive these net new organizational performance organizational and performance outcomes. So, for example, if we look at AI natives coming out of Silicon Valley, these are companies that are born with employees and agents out of the gate to do certain things. They're literally reinventing the org chart from inception. Once that funding check comes through, even before that funding check comes through, and so they're designing the the The business of the future right now, and we're buying time of the business of the past, largely and politely said. And there's nothing wrong with that. But who's going to lead those conversations? Is it going to be because we see momentum being had beyond deflecting cases? Maybe someone leans in and asks, "What do we what do we want to do with that freed up time and resources? Because one option is that we can pay for AI by just cutting the heads of the people who no longer need to serve in that in that moment, or we can think through about ways to partner them with AI, skill them differently with AI to achieve new value within the organization, and that that has to come from somewhere, and that is a culture of not just psychological safety, but curiosity and imagination and questioning, and that that that is an actual initiative to get there. Dave Wright 21:45 It's interesting thinking. I mean, we were talking the other week about this, Brian. But some of these high-profile CEOs that you see that are now stepping down and saying, "Hey, you know, I I could take Coca-Cola to here, but but in this in this new world of artificial intelligence, I don't know if I've got the legs to take it to the next level. So, so there's also like a handing over the torch between people who are saying, "Well, if if this is a complete new revolution, you're going to need a revolutionary leader to be able to drive that. Brian Solis 22:14 That's right. That's right. And those those revolutionary leaders, I would say, are are probably born not not skilled, and that might need to change now because the pressure on any given leader are all based on yesterday's measures and metrics and standards and pressures, and that's all fine. But you got to give somebody space to do something different. We have to give space for leaders to think about that next S curve and how AI can help them jump to that curve while also milking everything out of the current curve that they're on. Steve 22:51 Yeah, I can see it's almost like fighting a battle or fighting a war on two fronts, right? One, the getting more efficient in getting more effective and driving error rates down and improving process flow times, et cetera, to kind of help manage that quarter to quarter cadence a little bit, perhaps. But then thinking about, hey, if we don't start to think a little more broadly, a little differently, a little more with more freedom and creativity, longer term, I'm not sure, right? I mean, I just saw really. I mean, it's a 50 year time horizon, but that's still not that long. 50 year time horizon. There was something like two of the Dow companies in the Dow Jones, you know, industrial. There's only two that are still there from 50 years ago, right? All the other ones are gone, right? And we can talk about all the reasons why that happens, and it's probably happening much faster even now than a 50-year horizon. It's probably a five-year horizon, right, of change, right, and needing to be willing to to embrace that and ride along with it as a leader. Dave Wright 23:56 It's like if you go back to 1890s in America, like 92% of the jobs are agricultural, and now it's less than 2% But it's not-it's not like 90% of people are unemployed. It's everything shifted, and new jobs have been created because of that. But what you're describing, Steve, is that's what-that's what Brian and I call mode one and mode two AI. So, so mode one is very much this iterative AI. How do I how do I do things to reduce my bottom line costs? The mode two is the the innovative AI. How do I use AI to to do what I couldn't do before and drive the business? And the the interesting thing about both of those is you you present it to people, um, and people say, well, do we do we want to be a mode one company or a mode two company? And the challenge is you need to be both because mode one gives you the funding and the savings that drives mode two, but you have to be in that dual mode to be able to to take access of that bimodal approach to AI. Brian Solis 24:51 requires a bridge between the two modes. So your your point, Steve, about fighting two battles on different fronts, there is there is that synergy, that Venn diagram between them. As Dave said, one is going to unlock the opportunity and the resources to then propel mode two, put that into if whatever visual you need, who as you're listening to this, it's let's call it a hierarchy that has to come from somewhere. Like that is a mandate. That is a measure. That is that is something that we're going to drive our stand up meetings or our Monday meetings or whatever it is. That that is that is what we're we're driving toward. And and and so that for all the CEOs and the boards and the investors that are listening, you got to give people space to to to even realize that that is that is necessary. If you think about Steve, to your point, the number of companies that are no longer here, I would just make a small wager because I'm not a betting man, at least not with money, technology, yes, but every one of those C suites of failed organizations were able to cash out and live quite a comfortable life. And I would love to see, I would love to see pressure coming in on value creation incentive incentivization structures on value creation, so that the role of a leader is to lead those two fronts, or if they need a co-leader, whatever it is, a construct for that. As Dave said, the two leaders who cited AI as they were stepping down were Coca-Cola CEO and Walmart CEO, that they could start this transformation, but they can't. They can't see it through. So that's a that's a call for a new type of leader, and a new type of leader just doesn't magically appear. We got to define what that role is. We got to define what we're looking for, how we're going to measure success there, and give that person or these these people the support they need to be successful. Steve 26:57 One of the things I should have asked when when it came up initially, was the the idea of the chief workflow officer, and which I think is a great idea. Do you have some thoughts on that person? Like, who is that person? Where do they come from? What probably is their experience? Do you have thoughts on that, Dave? Dave Wright 27:20 Yeah, there are. I mean, the first thing is whoever you put in that position has got to be empowered to change things because you know you can give people a title, but unless they've got the authority to to truly potentially kill some sacred cows and say, "Well, this isn't the way we're going to do it going forward, that that the job isn't going to work. But it's it's someone who's going to be working because you're going to have to work across the organizational leaders. It's someone who's going to be working with the CHRO, with the CIO, with the COO. They're going to be working with that C-suite level to be able to to redefine what's happening. But it's got to be everyone's got to work around a vision for what the company wants to achieve, because what what we found out is when you when you deploy technology, let's say you deploy, oh, what would be a good example? Okay, so let's say you deploy a technology that automates inside sales. So when people are doing email blasts or whatever, that's all that's all automated, really base AI functions, and out of that you say, well, well, this has freed up 25 heads. We're going to move those 25 heads to marketing because we want to start a new campaign that's going to go into a new region. Unless that's driven at the right level by by by whoever's designing the organization and inherently the workflows. What happens is the sales team go, no, no, they're they're my 25 heads. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna give them away. I'm gonna, I'm gonna use them for something else. So you have to think of it holistically across the company. It's going to be someone who's got strong project management and program management skills because defining the workflow is one thing, then executing it has got to be something else, and the end result of it's got to be, and this is just for general acceptance across the company, the experience has got to be better than it was before. If you if you build something out and the experience is worse, this is where you get all these historical digital transformation projects where it's like, hey, we rolled out this new tool, no one uses it. Well, I'll tell you why. Steve 29:22 That is probably 80% right of the classic big ERP failure stories we've all read over the years, right? Where we spent $100 million to put in X doesn't matter what system it is, and it's worse to use, and then there's more errors, and it takes longer, and we can't, you know, the famous story of you know Hershey couldn't get candy bars, you know, into the stores before Halloween because of you know of it, right? One year, and so yeah, that's a that's a great analogy, Dave, for sure. Brian Solis 29:50 One thing to build on that that Dave was talking about with sacred cows, you know, having having been in many actual transformations, not just modernizations, but actual transformations, technology, in hindsight, it almost seems like the easy part. In the past, a lot of it was culture, a lot of it was politics, a lot of it was just people stuff. But this is one where technology becomes also transformative in then what you can do next. And Dave and I had a lot of fun. We wrote we wrote a report earlier in the year on what we called this AI mindset, and the mindset was different than what at the time we were talking about it as a digital mindset. This is before the book came out, and we force ourselves to go through these exercises so that we could we could practice what we preach, which was what are the different questions we need to be asking, and that that was not an easy exercise because we're so very much used to and even conditioned and disciplined to ask how we can make something faster, or how we can make something cheaper. There's whole constructs and measures around those things. But when you start venturing into this new and un unknown territory, well, why do we do it and let the answers come out and treat it honestly as you're hearing those answers? You, you, what you're you're not in those in those exercises, you're not just straight up killing sacred cows. You're recognizing that they need to just be put out to pasture, and hopefully that becomes like a group exercise. Like, you know, now that now that we're talking about it, so it comes it com it comes back to Dave's point that somebody's got to be empowered to do this. But the process to get there isn't rocket science, so you know. I I think about. I've worked with pretty much every consultant. I've I've been a a digital consultant, I guess you could say over over the decades. But imagine someone from IDEO. You know, this is the group that famously designed the Palm Pilot and all these other famous devices that came out of nowhere. Imagine having someone from IDEO, not a traditional management consultant, but a design thinking consultant, a human centered design consultant, coming in and saying, "All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna navigate at the top of the C suite. I'm gonna go into marketing. I'm gonna go into HR. I'm gonna go into the different functions of the organization. I'm gonna ask, what are all the things you wish you could do that you believe would create new value, but you just can't get to it because you don't have you don't have the resources, you don't have the support, you don't you know the political weight, and you're going to get a bunch of ideas, like real, like probably a bunch of not so good ideas, but some real substantive ideas, and that person is probably going to facilitate these ideas, use a human-centered design weighting system, and be able to recognize there are ways. Like Dave said, if you can free up these 25 heads, these 25 heads can go to any one of these places that we could we could prioritize just to demonstrate that we can do this, just to demonstrate that we could achieve a quick win, even before we get to greater innovation and greater organizational transformation, like there are things we could do today. Steve 33:09 Yeah, I think the opportunities are immense, right? They're almost unbound, infinite, if you will, to use your words, guys. Thank you. Like I fit that in. Last question before we let you guys go. This is one maybe a little bit more speculative. Let's say it's 20, it's 2026 today. That's not speculative, but two organizations, similar ish, right? Similar industry, similar size, similar ish everything, right? Have access to the same tools, both of them, everything that's available now and might become available in the next couple of years in terms of AI, one of them five years from now is wildly successful. One of them middling along, doing the same things they're doing today, but maybe just a little bit faster and cheaper. One of them does achieve some of these transformations that we've talked about. What would you say would is the biggest difference? What would that successful company have done along the way to end up where they end up? Like, what what's the couple things that would say: These are the things that would help you get to that place in five years with this. Dave Wright 34:12 The biggest one, and and I'm sure Brian will agree with this, the biggest one, it's not it's not actually the deployments of the AI. It's the it's the modification of the workflows to be able to optimize the AI. So so it's the people who transform their business to run in not not an optimal way from an efficiency perspective, but an optimal way in the the way they can create space to do what they want to do and do what they need to do, and and Brian, you'll remember the quote better than me, but but one of the biggest impacts on eBit of data is actually workflow design. Was it was it an Anston Young? Brian Solis 34:56 It was Quantum Black by McKinsey. Dave Wright 34:58 McKinsey, sorry. Yeah, so 25 things you could alter, but the the redesigning and the reorchestration of workflows is going to be the thing differentiates you. Because, as you said, Steve, if you give everyone the same technology and and people have got the same people in the organization, then then there is no differentiation. What your differentiation is is your culture in the company, it's your operating model in the company. It's the data that you have. It's the customers that you have. It's the employees that you have, and how you orchestrate across all of those is what's going to be the biggest differentiation between you being a successful company and a mediocre company. Brian Solis 35:35 That is exactly right. And if I'll complement it with the humanities of it all. Which, essentially, if you if you look at an AI native startup, this is someone who's essentially doing what Dave just described. You you you have essentially the reimagination of a workflow, so that the the company can perform with a leaner set of resources to achieve a parity outcome, say like it's finance or operations, but also greater like R and D, like net net new ways to to achieve those outcomes. And if you think about, I think it was it was OpenAI published earlier in this year, a report where they had identified what they had called a capability overhang, which is if you give everyone the tools like your questions and you look at how people are using it, what they found was a small minority of people were extracting the greater amount, a greatest amount of value out of the tool. They were they were working with it to augment their thinking, their capacity, everything that we've been talking about earlier. Whereas the majority were just kind of using it to flood flood the app store with slopware and and Amazon books with with with slop books and what have you, but what they had found was that that smaller group of everyone using AI were 7x more capable than everyone else, and that is a profound differentiator, which is probably something that isn't going to shrink, probably going to expand over time, and you're already starting to create a delta between people who are using this in the shadows versus everyone else who's just being trained on fluency. So your immediate answer in on top of what Dave said is, who's going to who's going to enable that? Who's going to empower that 7x across the board? Because the difference between companies a few years from now are going to be the people who solve for that. Steve 37:46 Yeah, Dave and Brian, thank you first of all. I want to remind everyone the book is called Infinite: How Visionary Leaders Transform Today's Businesses into AI-Forward Companies. I think you need to get this book if you're listening to this, if you are invested enough to hang out with us for 35 or 40 minutes to listen to this stuff, I think this is the book for you. I love this stuff, and in fact, I want to thank you guys both. And I'm an enormous fan of ServiceNow, mainly because you've always been thinking about how the work gets done, right? That's the the job of ServiceNow, and make that better, among other jobs, I'm sure too. But just that focus to me has always been like spot on, right? And it's it's not about let's code this invoice 5x faster or or you know do this thing a little bit better, right? And I think you're you're you're giving people the right advice right now for the times we're in, and so first of all, I appreciate you guys for both joining us, Dave and Brian. We'll link to the book, of course. We'll link to ServiceNow. Is there anything else you want to let give our audience as we leave? What's the next next book, Brian? Do you want to tease it or is it too soon? Brian Solis 39:02 I'm always thinking about what comes next, but these things are usually inspired by what's not happening today, so that we can accelerate what needs to happen. And this is the book people need now. When Bill McDermott talks about AI business reinvention, for example, there this is the okay. Now, what do I need to do, and how do I need to do it? And one last thing I'll add and turn it over to Dave is that earlier when we were talking about the questions you need to be asking now for mode one and mode two are in this book and they're drawn out and what to do next. So this really is if you're ready to if you're ready to transform your organization and and start somewhere this is this is where you start. Dave Wright 39:39 I'm going to agree with Brian on that. This was... we never sat down to to write a book. We were just having conversations, and one day we said we should put all this together, and that's how that's how the whole idea was born. So so that's what I encourage everyone to do: have conversations and think about is this the right way to do things? Steve 39:58 Yeah, great stuff. I highly recommend it. Thank you again, Dave Wright, Brian Solis, ServiceNow. Thanks to our friends at Workhuman for supporting the show. Of course, catch all the archives on HRHappyHour.net. My name is Steve Boese. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next time! Transcribed by https://otter.ai