HR Happy Hour 485 – Labor Market News and What’s Ahead in 2021

Hosted by

Steve Boese

Co-Founder of H3 HR Advisors and Program Chair, HR Technology Conference

Trish Steed

CEO and Principal Analyst, H3 HR Advisors

About this episode

This week we were joined by Nick Bunker from Indeed for an overview of the Indeed Hiring Lab and the latest review of the labor market.  We talked about the April Jobs Report and why it was so disappointing as well as the JOLTS report with 8.1 million open jobs.  We also discussed the types of job postings Indeed has seen on the rise in the US.


Thanks Nick, for joining us!  Be sure to subscribe to the HR Happy Hour wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript follows:

Steve 0:00
Welcome to the HR Happy Hour Show with Steve and Trish. Trish, we are coming up on Memorial Day weekend as we record this. This is a big weekend for many reasons. Also in the auto racing world, Trish. So here Which one do you have IndyCar, Formula One, NASCAR, drag racing, or mascot racing at the ballpark? Or none of the above? What are you choosing?

Trish 0:28
Okay, this is a good question. I actually will choose NASCAR. I’ll be honest, I have not watched a race in a while but when I was when I was pregnant and on bedrest and like very captive during like NASCAR’s, you know, major races. I think I I watched every single race that year and that kind of got me hooked. So I’m a huge was a Tony Stewart fan. I even went to Kansas Speedway at one point and saw him and he actually won. His ran out of gas across the finish line. It was like a brilliant, brilliant race. So anyway, yes, NASCAR. What about you?

Steve 1:06
I’m probably going NASCAR as well. Trish, I’m more newly into it again reemerging. And I moved to the southeast. I moved to the Charlotte area, which is kind of the home base, if you will for NASCAR lots of based in that area. And I think Trish, we’re recording this before Memorial Day but the big NASCAR race on Memorial Day weekend is in Charlotte in Charlotte Motor Speedway. I think I’m gonna go I’m gonna try and get a ticket and go I think, that’s my plan.

Trish 1:34
Have you ever been to one?

Steve 1:35
I have been to one many, many years ago. Yeah, you got to talk all about that on my other podcast NASCAR daily, which is getting very popular.

Trish 1:44
That’s fair.

Steve 1:45
So I will report back if I go to that race. All right, Trish I’m wasting our time here. And wasting our guest’s time because this show, Trish, to me is going to be one of my favorite topics of the year, really for the quarter? Because I’d love to do this once a quarter if we could. We’re going to be talking about the labor market really, really quickly. And what’s happening the labor market because I’ve got a million questions about it. We’ve got an expert from Indeed is going to join us here in a second. But first Trish, I think we should thank our sponsors.

Trish 2:10
That’s right. And we want to thank our friends over at Paychex, who are one of the leading providers of HR, payroll, retirement, and Insurance Solutions for businesses of all sizes. I found this very interesting. They just sent us some new facts and more than half of businesses owners with 10 to 500 employees say the availability of the COVID-19 vaccine is causing them to start or start planning the return to the workplace. So really good. That is such great news. I mean, obviously, we want everybody back to work, but especially those small businesses that have really been struggling during the pandemic. If you were thinking about instituting a vaccination policy, go download Paychex, the latest ebook, managing COVID-19 vaccinations and the return to work, you can learn about key considerations for developing your policy, as well as important health and safety measures for establishing a safe, productive return to work. Go to pe slash ebook dash vaccines. I know that’s a mouthful, we will post that in the show notes. But you can go there and download your copy of the ebook today and actually and check out all the rest of their COVID 19 information that’s been really valuable. But yeah, especially the return to work.

Steve 3:22
Awesome. Well, thank you to our friends and Paychex. Alright, Trish, let’s get on with it. We want to talk the labor market. Our guest today is Nick Bunker. He’s the Economic Research Director for North America at the Indeed Hiring Lab who focuses on the US labor market. He was previously a Senior Policy Analyst at the Washington Center for Equitable Growth and Economic Think Tank. Prior to that Nick was a research assistant at the Center for American Progress. He holds a BSFS and International Economics from Georgetown University. Nick, welcome to the HR Happy Hour Show. How are you today?

Nick Bunker 3:55
I’m doing fantastic. Thanks so much for having me on the show.

Steve 3:58
Up to you. You want to weigh in on the auto racing question?

Nick Bunker 4:02
Yeah, so I think I’m gonna go with that final option, which was I’m a big baseball fan. And I love the mascot races. I’m in Washington, DC. And they always have the president mascots do the race. And I always root for Teddy. He never really wins. It’s very, very rare. But I always hold out hope that he will. He will get that one. So looking forward to doing some of that.

Steve 4:25
Yeah, mascot races are awesome. The one in Milwaukee was always like the one everybody’s going to with different sausage products, right?

Nick Bunker 4:31
Yes, that is I’ve ever heard that ballpark. But that would be awesome to see live for sure.

Steve 4:36
All right. Good stuff, Nick. Thanks so much for hopping on. I actually made the I request to my friends at Indeed. Is there anybody wants to come on and help me talk about the labor market? So you were volunteered Nick or volunteered yourself? I’m not sure what happened there. But I do want to thank you for joining us today before we start talking about some of the labor market stuff, maybe give our listeners a little overview of the Indeed Hiring Lab, what that is and kind of what you do there.

Nick Bunker 4:59
Yeah. So we are a global team of economists who work at Indeed, and our mission is to help lead the global labor market compensation. So what that means is that we use data either from Indeed, or other publicly available sources of data. So the United States, that’s the Bureau of Labor, statistics, other government agencies, we want to understand and try to help answer the biggest question in the labor market. So obviously, Perhaps unsurprisingly, over the past year and a bit, we’ve been very focused on the effect of COVID-19 on labor market, how those it’s affected, hiring, intended hiring, when it comes to our job postings, and also how that varies a lot by different industries and sectors. So that’s been our model on our mind pretty consistently over the last 13-14 months. So that’s what we focus on. And hopefully we can shed some light onto what folks are going through right now.

Steve 5:47
Awesome, Nick, I appreciate that. And you right, there’s probably never been a busier time for folks who are working on labor market analyses and predictions and trying to help governments and businesses kind of understand the ins and outs labor market. I mean, the thing, the impetus, the specific impetus for me to reach out was the April jobs report when it came out a few weeks ago now about maybe three weeks ago as we’re speaking, which had a really disappointing number, at least disappointing by most estimates, right? Only about 266,000 jobs added for the month, most economists were looking at a million plus maybe more, right? And so that was what I said, well, there’s something’s going on here. Maybe just give us I know, you wait for that number every month to maybe maybe just talk a little about what you saw. We saw that number and what we what might be behind that a little bit that sort of big beyond that headline number, what that folks should be thinking about or know about?

Nick Bunker 6:42
Yeah, so I won’t share my exact reaction, because I think we want to keep this a family friendly podcast. But when I refreshed that website, I saw that number, I was definitely thrown for a loop. And I I don’t think I was alone among that. So what you know, to give some context about why a number that seems pretty large, so disappointing is that prior to that report, we had seen lots of indications and a number of data that employers are really looking to hire that know, for example, on Indeed, one of the things that we’ve been doing with the hiring lab is tracking the level of job postings on our site. And they are now well above pre pandemic level, which is what you’d expect his players are reopening. They want to add more workers and to sort of make up for all the lack of hiring the DOP, and they haven’t done during the pandemic. And there was other data sources on spending from credit card companies and even data from the government itself, showing how much savings that people had. And lots of people expected that after the February that, you know, the march data, we saw almost a million jobs added it would have this sort of continued expansion. And that’s not we saw 166,000 is a lot for a labor market, like the one we saw back in February 2020, where the unemployment was three and a half percent. And we’ve seen here, jobs growth. But for a labor market, that’s down to 8.2 million jobs. That’s not a lot. So I think the sort of story, the top line story that lots of people seem to have settled on is that there is an issue of what we economists like to call labor supply, that there’s clearly lots of demand for workers. So labor demand was at that point. And now all indications are is still really strong. It’s just that, you know, the matching between supply and demand wasn’t there. So that one expectation is that these are numbers that were more than expected, because there were lots of people who did not pick jobs that were available because of a variety of factors.

Nick Bunker 8:39
One, the pandemic so ongoing, and vaccination rates aren’t as high as they could be. So there’s lots of fear and apprehension there. There’s also the fact that there’s childcare situations, but there’s lots of people, parents jobs, with jobs, or who had jobs, who might not be returning yet. And there’s also the fact that there’s, you know, potentially these expanded, extended, extended and expanded UI benefits that could be holding some folks back. So, you know, that’s like his top line view, the basically, it seems as though we’re not getting as many people taking the jobs that are out there. But it’s not clear how long that sort of that mismatch is going to continue.

Trish 9:23
Yeah, I wonder, I’m glad you mentioned them not taking the jobs that are out there. Because I know, you know, a handful of people close to me, who are, you know, for various reasons through the pandemic who’ve lost their jobs or been laid off for a long period of time. I was even looking at some of the data you know, about the numbers of people who’ve been out of work for 27 weeks plus, right, considered really long term unemployed at this point, and, you know, they’re out there applying for these jobs. But I just feel like the employers also aren’t being as responsive as I would have anticipated either. So it’s not I mean, I feel like it’s it’s sort of both directions right. You have some of the former employees for various reasons, not maybe going back because of childcare and whatnot. But I also feel like there are a number of employers who are passing up on really good candidates or maybe not passing up, but definitely not being responsive, right. I don’t know if they’re just taking their time, or what’s going on? Or maybe they’re uncertain. Are you seeing any of that, like from the employer standpoint of uncertainty?

Nick Bunker 10:20
I think that uncertainty is a good point. And I also think it is tied in some ways to that. For many people, employers or former employees, the baseline is pre endemic. So maybe employers might be thinking that they can sort of open or offer a job and have served same characteristics save schedule or amount of flexibilities that was sort of standard back before the pandemic. But now, maybe people’s opinions have changed. I think there’s also, you know, the fact that while you look at some measures, like the level of unemployment is quite high, but there’s lots of demand for workers right now. So the labor market is tighter than you would have expected, you’d be extinct, given that we’re down 8.2 million jobs from where we were before the pandemic. So it could be employers are going to have to think about recruiting or hiring in a way they did only a couple years ago that the comparison here isn’t a year or two after huge recession. It’s more what it was like in 2017, 2018, 2019, where you maybe you had to expand the pool of folks that you were considering for a position, especially after over a year of people having a huge life experience all at the same time where they’re reconsidering what is important to them.

Steve 11:35
Nick, thanks for that. And I think I want to talk a little bit more we started with the April jobs number, right. We We will talk pre show about the two reports. We look forward to each month right the the jobs report first Friday of every month, and then the JOLTS report, which is on BLS puts out as well. It’s essentially the job openings report. And there’s other data in that report. But everybody hone in on that job opening number, Nick, in the last report, which was for March 2021, showed 8.1 million open jobs in the United States and all time record in that data series, which goes back to about the year 2000, I think. And so then, of course, another litany of why are there so many open jobs, and so many people unemployed, this doesn’t make sense. So I’d love for you to comment either on the jolts number itself. Or if you’d rather talk about just what the Indeed data is showing about this surge of surge is the right word, I want to use that word for you an increase in open jobs, and what that sort of suggests to you and what you’re seeing from those numbers.

Nick Bunker 12:36
I will never turn down the opportunity to talk about the JOLTS numbers. So I think that, you know, the roughly 8 million job openings we’ve seen US, I think that’s, again, a sign of just how strong demand for new hires is these days. But that’s also a number I think that’s really important to take in context with the level of joblessness. So I think, you know, unemployment is a really good number there. So I’m a metric I was looking at when that report comes out is the ratio of unemployed workers to job openings. So if you looked at that, for March, the ratio there was there was roughly 1.3 unemployed workers per job opening. Now, that’s much higher than what we’re seeing before the pandemic. There are more job openings than unemployed workers in late 2019, early 2020. But that numbers, that ratio is consistent with what we’re seeing back in 2017, which was a labor market. That was you had unemployment around 4%. Fairly, it was, it was healthy, but it wasn’t quite as strong as what we saw before the pandemic. So I think that’s a nice number that matches up labor demand labor supply, and to get your sense of sort of how tight the labor market is. So I think that’s something I really keep an eye on. And then I also think another number that I you know, so clearly that the terms of, you know, how are all these jobs being unveiled? Well, it’s, there’s a lot of unemployed people right now. But also, there’s, I think, some frictions in the labor market because of how fast things are moving. That it’s we’ve you know, you can look at just the job openings for the leisure and hospitality sector, that includes restaurants, hotels, those sorts of industries, if you’ve jumped up in March, which is sort of a sign of reopening, that these are sectors that really hit a hit hard by the pandemic and want to reopen again.

Nick Bunker 14:28
And then, but I think, you know, take that as sort of the level of the tightness of labor market. But one thing that has stood out in this recovery so far is that hiring, the ease of hiring, or sort of the, you know, the ease of turning a job opening into an actual hire is really low right now. It’s actually much lower than you expect, given that tightness of the labor market. And that’s where I think a lot of the story is about, there’s something going on here on at least potentially, temporarily on that you know, on the job to your side, but there could be some hesitancy because of a lot of those factors that we talked about earlier. The pandemic itself, potentially UI benefits, childcare, other issues that could abate, as we get through the summer and into the fall. So I think that’s another thing. And that’s the measure, they’re sort of hires for job opening. So I think openings on space, really important things to look at. But it’s also a really good way to understand, to put contextualize with other numbers, either from that report, or from the jobs report, which, from a month earlier.

Trish 15:34
Yeah, I think employers should probably take note of all of those things you just mentioned, because those are the things that maybe if they address those upfront, if they’re thinking about some of those factors up front, they might be able to, you know, push that down to those hiring managers, or to the recruiting leaders that are that are working on filling these roles, to maybe address those proactively with potential candidates. Instead of waiting and having maybe some anxiety on the candidate side thinking like, I wonder how this company is going to handle the recovery. I wonder how this, you know, this employer is going to bring people into the workplace, will I be safe? Like they don’t? It’s not like another like an existing employee returning to work who might have already have anxiety about that. And they know the employer, you’re talking about new people coming in who don’t know you at all? And it’s Yeah, it’s just a really unsettling situation. So I think those are some really good points you brought up?

Nick Bunker 16:26
Yeah, I think that is, we’re talking earlier about how this is a transition and sort of, we’re all discovering a new normal. And that might be a thing that potentially maybe just in the short term, that employers are going to have to be more aware that there are aspects of jobs that maybe weren’t as important to job seekers before as they are now. I think about you know, think about any sort of relationship over the past year and a bit, say you want to go you want to go see a friend, a couple might say, you know, last fall or something, and you’d have to sort of disclose all of it like, Oh, well, I haven’t, like left my apartment in like three months, or I routinely go to the grocery store, those sort of understanding of the situations that we’re gonna find ourselves in that we usually don’t we don’t have a language most of the time for sort of talking about different aspects. What’s more important now in this in a period that hopefully should be going away over the next few months?

Trish 17:18
Yeah, that’s so true. Yeah, we normally don’t walk around saying, Hey, I’m vaccinated, like, I’m okay. You know, but all changed.

Steve 17:26
That’s a great point to that. I’m going to ask about that in a sort of semi related way in a minute. But one other thing, Nick, I wanted to ask you about too, is before COVID, right, the labor market was super tight. We all know this, right? Still a lot of job openings, probably 7 million ish, right? Three and a half percent unemployment. Most of what we talked about are heard right, in terms of why can’t employers make the hires that they need, the ones who were struggling at the time, I felt like skills mismatch was pretty much the only reason we talked about at least in depth. We just can’t find qualified employees. They don’t have the skills that we need. Now, as you talked about earlier, and it’s there’s so many kind of pandemic related layers on contributing to the fact that there’s so many open jobs, and we can’t many employers, at least certainly anecdotally, right, watch any local news report, right? Pretty much in America. And there’ll be a local restaurant owner on there saying to the local TV news that they can’t find servers or, you know, busboys or cooks, or what have you so I don’t know. It’s I guess my question is, is the skills mismatch over we’re not we’re not really talking about it much. I’m not reading much about it, we’re mostly talking about these pandemic related issues, and other kinds of disconnects between supply and demand. I wonder if though, once the pandemic is truly over, we’ll be back to talking about skills mismatch. I’m just confused. I guess a little bit by that. I don’t know if that’s something you ever think about as well.

Nick Bunker 18:49
So I think it’s important to distinguish from what were the sort of factors that we were thinking about talking about back before the pandemic, and now during the pandemic. And I think to your point about the skills mismatch, I think you offered that example the restaurants are talking about, there’s no one to hire, I think one way to think about the industries are bouncing back or looking to hire the most. A lot of the story, what we’re seeing right now is the really pandemic constraint industries, looking to ramp up their hiring and get employment levels back to where the for those are. So again, that’s restaurants, hotels, lots of with leisure activities, right? Those were the sectors that were really complaining about a skills mismatch necessarily back in February 2020, November 2019, those were really industries that had a relatively easier time filling positions. So I think that’s why you’re hearing more now because there’s really pandemic constraint factors.

Nick Bunker 19:51
And it’s an industry that’s trying to like ramp up a lot and in a very, very fast time, and I think that that’s that speed aspect is there. And so I think there’s, for the most part, I think once there’s going to be this sort of transitionary phase, and you can imagine, who knows, next year, after that I don’t want to make predictions about the overall health of wave markets. That’s one way to look embarrassing. But that you could have a situation where we’re sort of the factors that make hiring a bit more difficult than say employers would like or look more traditional to what you see just in a regular old, tight labor market. And then I think we will get back probably to an argument about skills mismatch. Full disclosure, I’m a person who doesn’t think the skills mismatch is necessarily a huge macro, economically important factor. I think for the most part, you know, employers aren’t sort of disarmed or sort of unable to deal with some of those issues. There’s ways to get folks in the door. wage increases salary increases is a really good way to do that. Also, I think there’s just some times that employers think there are people out there who can’t do the job, but if you take them on board and do some training, they’re very capable of doing it.

Steve 21:10
Oh, yeah. I mean, there’s a whole nother show we can do about kind of credential inflation, right in job postings and in job evaluation criteria and candidate assessment. And I think we probably have talked about that before on the show, but that’s certainly one area or against geriatrician, I, we’ve been doing a lot of stuff on over the last couple years is around inclusivity and accessibility, right, opening up to people who are differently challenged or abled, right, or maybe perhaps in a recruiting from underrepresented communities, etc. There’s lots of creative ways to to, to attach that problem. But I agree to in general, that the skills mismatch thing has been overwrought, right. And then it’s maybe it’s convenient to in a way for employers sometimes, but yeah, it’s something that is real or not, it’s hard to tell. It’s hard. So a lot of these things, right? Because you’d like I said, when that local restaurant here goes on TV and talks about, oh, no one will come to work. No one wants to work. No one wants to work, right. You hear that message over and over again, can be concerned, it starts to be a little persuasive. Right. And I, you know, yeah.

Nick Bunker 22:12
Yeah. And I think that’s one part of the public conversation, especially about in the labor market sometimes, and especially in this issue, you’re hearing from the employers point of view, when the job seeker might say, Yeah, I used to work in that industry. But I’m not super excited about going back because I am still concerned about the virus, or my daughter is, you know, 10, but can’t go back to school right now. We’re still doing like zoom school. So need some time for him to get back to work? You know, Nick, I have a question for you. I was thinking about as you were kind of talking about all these differences that are happening. What are you seeing when it comes to maybe the people who might have had those kinds of roles in the past? Right? at a small business, or maybe a retail or restaurant or whatnot?

Trish 22:59
Are you seeing this move to remote work being more, I guess, acceptable long term because people are now moving to maybe cities they haven’t lived in before. I know there’s a big push to move to cities that are you know, less expensive, for example, because there are opportunities to work remotely or do you? Do you think there’s any movement of people who were in those retail or small business jobs, who now find greater opportunities in things they hadn’t considered before? Because maybe they were really tied to a location? I mean, I don’t know. I haven’t read much about that. I don’t know if you’ve seen anything like that. It was just thinking because of, again, people moving to, you know, like I there was a news story yesterday on CBS about all those people from California, moving to Boise, Idaho. And it’s like flooding, Boise, Idaho’s, you know, housing market with all of these people, but because the people are saying we can now work from Boise, Idaho. I don’t know, are we seeing movement from some of these industries into maybe maybe they’re able to do other kinds of jobs? I don’t know.

Nick Bunker 24:06
Yeah. So I think on that sort of geographic movement points, I think one of the things you can see in some of the data is that people have sort of moved during the pandemic before large part with a few exceptions. It’s been mostly sort of people moving from downtown areas, to the suburbs. So it’s more like within Metro moves. And I say that as a person who is about to move to the suburbs. So are, you know, an economist is part of the data here. But so I think that it is, and that sort of is tied up, in some ways to the work from home compensation that we’re having. That, you know, it is an experience, that’s a relatively small percent. It’s not as expansive. It’s not as large part of the labor market as you might expect, given some of the conversations because it’s mostly people with college degrees or more. But I think there’s this question of, if you were say the distinction between fully remote and sort of flexible about the difference between a person who is a software engineer and decides, I used to live in San Francisco. Now I can live in Boise do my job exactly the same, but have to pay Boise housing cost versus San Francisco housing costs. And then there’s the person who might work at a marketing team in a city then realize I’m only going to go into the office two or three days a week. So I can go out to the suburbs have more housing. And but my commute is I’m not going to have this longer commute every single day only might be twice a week as opposed to five days a week. So I think there’s that is what is you can see right now, now, it’s just a matter of, of all the jobs that possibly could be done from home remotely, what percent of those going to be sort of fully remote? Hey, you can live wherever you want in the US versus what percent are going to be more there’s a home office, but you don’t have to be there every day of the week.

Trish 25:56
Yeah, no, great points. Thanks, Nick.

Steve 25:58
I have one more from me, which for me circles back to Indeed, right. Because again, looking at indeed as the leader in job listings, and basically helping people connect opportunity, etc. Global. I watched the German Soccer League, Nick, I see the Indeed team all the time, you know, it’s awesome, even though they’re not my team it’s cool to see that. Are you guys and if you tell me you don’t really look at this, or you personally Look at this, that’s that’s cool, too. But like, I’m wondering, are there things you’re noticing in job listings themselves, of course, pace and acceleration and increase when we talked about that song, but also, the listings themselves in terms of credential inflation wage, maybe wages off on offers may be going up whether or not vaccinations that came up earlier in the conversation, whether or not you must be vaccinated to apply or come work with Delta Airlines announced last week, all new hires must be vaccinated. So I’m not sure if that’s a trend in job listings. And then finally, work remote. We just talked about that. Is there an uptick in jobs being listed that do offer remote work, possibility or potential?

Nick Bunker 27:06
That’s a really great question. So there’s a variety of factors and sort of characteristics of postings that we’re kind of actively looking on. I think the one that we can I can talk about the most is that remote job works. That’s actually some research that our chief economist Jed Kolko has done. He’s sort of done some really great work on this. And what you can see is that on our on, indeed, data, the share of postings that mentioned remote work has risen, I think it’s almost doubled, or more than doubled in the US. And you can see it’s sort of been sort of on a steady rise since the pandemic. And really what you see is that, for the most part, the postings have risen the most in the kinds of jobs, you’d expect to see lots of software engineering positions, but also positions that could it could be done remotely, but haven’t traditionally been done remotely. Legal jobs, for example, you know, so I think that there has been a very noticeable increase in the share postings that offer remote work. I do think the interesting thing here again, to return to an earlier theme is that how much of this is going to be remote in the sense of you only come to the office on Tuesdays and Thursdays that’s remote means versus remote? That means you work for the company, but you might never go into the office? Or even like see some of your colleagues in person?

Steve 28:27
Yeah, that’s one thing to watch. For sure. I’m watching that vaccination thing Trish really hard. And also wages. We didn’t really we don’t probably have time to do that, you know, the wage thing is endlessly fascinating to me. And I’ve talked about it some last week on the workbench show with George a little bit, just the pressure that I’ll just throw it out there cuz we’re not going to be able to take this on. But the pressure and lots of local markets that these huge national employers who are publicly making these really well reported, minimum wage floor increases, right. So your Amazon’s your cost goes your targets, right. Chip always done it. I think recently, right. The and the pressure that’s putting right on those mom and pop restaurants that are always on the news, right. You can comment on this, if you want to Nick that’s okay.

Nick Bunker 29:11
Yes, this is actually So two things are popping to mind. One is that it’s actually something I’m looking at right now is that you can see in Indeed data because we not only have postings, but we have search, job search. So you can see, for example, Amazon in 2018, when they announced their minimum wage, you saw a very on the day of the announcement, well, huge increase in the share of searches on our US site that were for Amazon. And I think there’s also an sort of pair that there’s been some economic, sorry, academic economic research on this, that, you know, these large chains do have a sort of influence on pay scales within industries that a large national retailer increases their wages that has an effect on locally market above and beyond just sort of what you’d expect to see wages for that. Sort of the strength of that market.

Steve 30:00
Yeah, awesome stuff. Well, we could I could go on forever. I think I suspect it here. Trish, I’m less certain of that, but we probably ought to let you go. I would love to figure out, Nick, we can have you back on though maybe not, I don’t know. But you know, take up all your time every month talking about jobs report, but maybe down the road, maybe three, six months from now let’s do a check in and see where we’re at with some of these things. I would love to do that.

Nick Bunker 30:24
That could be a lot of fun.

Steve 30:25
Awesome. Nick Bunker, for folks who want to learn more about the Indeed Hiring Lab and the stuff you guys are doing there? Where should they go?

Nick Bunker 30:31
Yeah, so our site is So you can check that out. That will send you to the US side, but then go up. And there’s a clicker on the right hand side that gets you to the other markets we cover. So Canada, UK, Ireland, Germany, France, and Australia.

Steve 30:50
I love it. Thanks so much, Nick for taking the time. I’ve always been a proponent that HR and talent leaders across the board should know more about what’s happening in the labor market macro and figuring out how that impacts their labor market kind of micro so I love this conversation. Thanks so much. Great stuff. My favorite show. Thanks for thanks for indulging me, this was my thing now.

Trish 31:11
I know you would love it. I love the idea of checking in again. Again, I think there’s going to be a lot of changes in the next couple months. So it’ll be interesting to to chat again about it.

Steve 31:20
Awesome. Okay, so thanks to our friends at Paychex, of course for all their support. Thank you our guest Nick Bunker from Indeed. Trish McFarlane, thank you. My name is Steve Boese. We will see you on the HR Happy Hour Show next time. And bye for now.

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