Vulnerability, Leadership, and Trust in the Workplace

Hosted by

Steve Boese

Co-Founder of H3 HR Advisors and Program Chair, HR Technology Conference

Trish Steed

CEO and Principal Analyst, H3 HR Advisors

About this episode

Vulnerability, Leadership, and Trust in the Workplace

Hosts: Steve BoeseTrish Steed

Guest: Pat Wadors, Chief People Officer, UKG

Today, we spoke with Pat Wadors of UKG about the importance of vulnerability and trust in the workplace. Some of the topics we discussed are:

– Building trust in organizations through vulnerability and accountability

– Neurodiversity, accommodations, and psychological safety in the workplace

– Employee check-ins and using AI to support meaningful conversations

– How technology can help foster human connection



Thank you for joining the show today!  Remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!

Transcript follows:

Steve 0:07
Welcome back to the HR Happy Hour Show. My name is Steve Boese, I’m joined by Trish Steed. How are you?

Trish 0:13
I’m good. How are you today, Steve?

Steve 0:15
I am well, thank you very much. It is a busy day here at H3 HR we’re gonna leave that in. I said, we’re going to edit out the bad parts that was funny. Couldn’t say it’s busy but fun, really excited.

Trish 0:35
Here at your company.

Steve 0:36
We’ve got a great show today. I’m super excited for the show. We’re gonna be talking about vulnerability and trust. I mean, we’re doing a lot of sharing on the show lately Trish.

Trish 0:48
There’s been a lot of sharing. And you know what I think the response to that sharing has been really, really positive, right? People relate to that when you’re sort of sharing yourself and your, your vulnerabilities. So I think that this is the perfect time to have someone come on and talk about that. And, just as kind of background for anyone. We will have this in the show notes. But this all came about because our guest was on The Today Show. I was watching the Today Show just kind of minding my own business. And the next thing I know I’m hearing all about, you know the workplace and building trust and in your organization and in your leaders and in your employees and how vulnerability plays into that. And so I was really wanting us to do this show and I’m thrilled that we are going to do it today here with our guest.

Steve 1:31
I am as well. Let’s welcome her to the show. Our guest today is Pat Wadors. She is the Chief People Officer at UKG. In her role, Pat’s day to day responsibilities are driven by her deep commitment to the entire employee experience had oversees the critical HR functions that bring this experience to life. That includes talent acquisition, development, comp and ban employee listening, people analytics, employee communications, HR tech and much, much more. Her personal mission is to ensure that you Kruger’s around the world are better people for having worked at UKG. That’s pretty awesome. Pat, welcome to the show. How are you?

Pat Wadors 2:09
I’m doing well. Thank you for having me today.

Steve 2:12
It’s our pleasure. So yeah, congrats on the Today Show. And Trish, you said you were watching the Today Show minding your own business. What else would you be doing minding other people’s business while you’re on with today’s show?

Trish 2:26
It’s one of those things. I’m not a big TV watcher like a news watcher either. So I don’t even know why it was on in that moment. I was having a cup of coffee. Maybe I actually was taking a break. But yeah, it wasn’t really I mean, I wasn’t really like hardcore paying attention to what was on the show. And so all of a sudden, I thought, wait a minute. I know who that is. And of course, you know, I perked up because I was telling Pat kind of pre show. We’ve not met in person. But I’ve been at events where she’s been speaking. And I’ve always been just really impressed with what she had to say. So I think that in combination of, you know, all of a sudden she’s on my television, and talking about things that I find quite interesting. I was all ears captive audience for sure.

Steve 3:09
Yeah, absolutely. So Pat, welcome. And maybe we’ll start with that. It’s a long journey, which led you to the Today Show, certainly talking about vulnerability. But but but maybe we’ll start with that. Why? Why that topic like you know, of all things because we could be talking about shortage of talent and remote work and hybrid working. And there’s a million big work. Ai, of course, is a huge issue in the workplace right now. But that issue on a national stage was important to you, obviously, I’d love to, I’d love to learn more about that.

Pat Wadors 3:38
I think it’s important to everybody. And that’s why it probably resonated and why they wanted to discuss it. Because if you think about all the things that are going on in the world, there’s no pattern recognition. I know the last four years for me there, there wasn’t a template, there was an I’m not a chief medical officer, I’m not a guru, on the macro social challenges that are happening. I’m a student, along with everyone else being perfectly imperfect about it. But you got to be vulnerable enough to say, I don’t know, let me find out. I care. Let me touch the elephant with you. Let me figure out what’s going on. So I have the right perspective and, and then go through the path together. So I think vulnerability is the secret sauce to a healthier living.

Trish 4:20
Pat, I’m glad that you said that. And I made note of the being perfectly imperfect. You know, I as background, I grew up my first real solid 10 years in my career at a professional services firm at one of the big four. And I think that when you’re young and Junior in your career, you look up to the leaders and you put them on like almost a pedestal right like they. They’re just untouchable. So it’s actually really refreshing for me to hear you as a chief people officer saying, we’re not we’re not perfect. Do you feel like I joined the workforce back in the late 90s Do you feel like as Hey, don’t as leaders, have we gotten better at that it’s showing we are imperfect? Or do you think that a lot of us as leaders are still out there just kind of trying to pretend like we’ve got it all under control?

Pat Wadors 5:12
I hope there’s more vulnerability and honest conversations about imperfection going on today than they were. Because we were all regardless of the function that you lead on a flat footed, in many ways in many situations. And so I think by acknowledging what we don’t know, you’re just kind of going out on a limb with everybody and Sam want to lead you through this. I’m not quite sure how to lead you through it yet. But we’ll go through it together. I don’t think there’s enough vulnerability out there. I think being more human at work, and how you show up would make it more graceful. And I also think that you would, by nature of sharing your mistakes, this is what I got to learn today, like shifting that mindset, that growth mindset, you will accelerate the growth of the company and your team, right by by creating this, you know, false facade of perfection, your I got all the answers, or I know how I want this thing to look or be, I think you slow everyone’s roll down. I mean, Steve, if you believed already had the formula, then you would scurry around and try to read my brain get the formula down, it slow you down and make you anxious. Yeah. That that’s unhealthy for creativity, for problem solving for the, for the culture. And so I hope more leaders are becoming more real with who they are and their learnings.

Trish 6:39
I think that, you know, at the beginning, Steve was kind of mentioning, like, there are all these other topics, right, that we could be talking about that are just so on the forefront. But what intrigues me about just everything we’re going to cover now is that that’s really, to me kind of that underpinning that that goes with all of those topics, right? So when you’re talking about both, you know, acquiring talent and finding them and retaining them and developing them and all the things right, to me, I think it comes back to do you trust your leaders? Is their trust in the organization? And if not, that’s when people leave? So I’d love to maybe could you kick it off? Maybe really just talk a little bit about how how can leaders build trust in the organization and with your teams? And what are what are the some of those critical pieces you see, as somebody has been a leader for quite a long time.

Pat Wadors 7:29
In there’s a bunch of different perspectives or avenues in which to build trust. One is to be vulnerable first, right? Trust is not, you got to trust me, and then I’ll be vulnerable actually think you have to be vulnerable. First, to build the trust, you got to walk the talk. I think you also have to be really clear about who you are and how to learn that the hard way. I was a clergy first time manager. But I think it’s important that my team understands I’m an introvert. So don’t read my signals the wrong way. Or I get anxious about my children or my daughter, or, you know, this is happening in my life. I don’t have to disclose everything. But I have to give you enough to know that I’m crispy today, or I’m sad today. And so it’s not you, it’s me. And give me grace to go through a bad day. And we’ll be great tomorrow. I think that builds trust. Because then you get to be crispy and be sad, right? You get to have a bad moment. And and the team gets to rally around you because I know over decades of experience that when you do this, you get more helping hands around you than not. I’ve never ever been left alone.

Pat Wadors 8:44
When I’ve been that vulnerable. I’ve had more help and more care. When I’ve shared a little bit more when I get a little like, I guess I have to tell you like this is what’s going on. And I’m comfortable. I don’t have an answer. And I’m scared or I’m sad. And all of a sudden people come and hold me virtually like it just like a great moment for me. And I think that’s one way. I think another way as a leader is Gosh, darn it, you know, walk your talk. And when you’re not walking your talk, and someone raises the mirror up and says you’re not you espouse this, but you did this, acknowledge it, own it be accountable and adjust. You you have a higher bar. Let’s face it as leaders, it’s a privilege. So you have a higher bar, you got to walk your talk. And if you’re not you will not be trusted. Whether they tell you or not, you will not be trusted. The other thing is how well do you communicate? And I’m not saying be eloquent speaker. What I’m saying is communication. Do you listen to you echo back for understanding? Do you share feedback constructively with care not to overwhelm not to make someone nervous? All those things add into that pie, that stew of trust, that sort of thing. It’s like a lot of things that come together for trust. I think it starts with vulnerability.

Steve 10:03
Thank you for sharing that. I was thinking as you were talking about this idea of like to be vulnerable. I think you maybe maybe I’m wrong, but I think I think I’m right, you have to feel that it’s a safe environment where you could be vulnerable in, right. And we’ve done a lot of shows over the last few years on accessibility and access to opportunity. And I think about in the context of we’ve learned, I’ve learned so much, but I’ve learned one of the things we’ve learned, it’s about folks who need accommodations in the workplace, often don’t ask for them, right, because they’re worried they’re a little bit afraid of being seen as less than or not quite up to the job, or this is just going to give this employer an excuse to manage be out of whatever right as the case may be. And so that’s one example only, that’s certainly not the only one. But I’d love for you to maybe talk a little bit about your experience with that, that culture or the an environment that’s safe enough that people, especially newer people, maybe even coming into the organization can feel comfortable to be vulnerable.

Pat Wadors 11:14
That’s a tough one. You’re right. So people that are, you know, neurodiverse people that that you can’t even see their hidden differences. They will really try to hide them, like 90% of them because they don’t want to be judged perceived, you know, ruin a chance and opportunity. And people with disabilities that are seen are significantly underemployed or unemployed. Right? That’s it. That’s, I think you’re picking on a great example. So I am neurodiverse I’m dyslexic. I hid it for probably the first 15 years. Even my family told me to hide it. Because if I wanted to do this work, and I wanted to do compensation like my, my dyslexia is like a stutter. So when I get anxious, I transpose letters and numbers. So like, I’ve actually messed up my CEOs bonus one time, on a PowerPoint because I was so nervous. I transpose it reduced it by only $50,000.

Steve 12:19
No big deal. No big deal.

Pat Wadors 12:21
And it was the CFO goes is there a reason why you change Tom’s bonus? And I’m like, oh, and normally what I would do is copy my Excel spreadsheet that they knew was protected and audit it and put it in a deck. Right? I would care less about being pretty, because I was new and when to impress people and and feel so safe. And I was still trying to figure out my way. I read typed everything and try to make it look nice with a font and this and that. And I messed up right in front of the board. I had to disclose I’m dyslexic, and I must have gotten nervous and transposed. But my first answer really was I didn’t think Tom performed so well last year. Yeah, yeah. And then I was a little more honest. But I think and then I even told Chris Todd, my CEO at UKG that I was dyslexic. And And to his credit, gosh, I so admire him. He called me up, you know, before I even started, because there’s any accommodation, like how can I help you with the dislike? Like, is there anything I’m supposed to do? Yeah, I love the question. I’m like, you actually know. So when I misspell Don’t Don’t think I don’t know how to spell. It’s just when transposes my head. Sometimes when I’m nervous, it gets worse and, and I’ll be slower my math to audit myself, because I’m conscious of what I’m doing. And I think I know that if you slow your role as a leader, as an organization, and you normalize everyone’s uniqueness, these things can come to the surface, and we can adapt.

Pat Wadors 14:00
Think about situational leadership that was designed to accommodate different styles, why can’t we just accommodate different ways of working and thinking and operating to get to the same output? And so I have been very verbal, with my differences, my daughter’s differences to let people know and so you know, I liked the difference. I think it’s my superpower now, like I am so thrilled that my brain is a little different because I’m more creative and more compassionate, higher empathy because of it. I think that’s did me well, for my gig, right. I think people that learn how to be great and pursue their purpose through challenges are just grittier, resilient. So psychological safety is what you’re getting out. It’s important steam. Not everyone has it, and I feel bad for it. And I think it’s up to the leadership to model it.

Trish 14:58
I think that’s such a great point. And I think that’s something if you are maybe interviewing with a company and assessing or even maybe looking at where you are, right, if you’re not feeling that sense of safety, I mean, that’s something that’s really important. And it’s probably nothing that we’ve been taught to ask during an interview. Right. So when you’re talking to the various team members, I mean, maybe asking them if they have an example of when was the time that you might not have felt as safe about performance or something at work? Or even doing something at home and sharing it at work? Or do you feel like you can share that? You know, I think your example, is such a good one, because I’m sitting there nodding and thinking like, when to hear that Chris Todd asked you what he could do to make it more comfortable for you. Steve, I know you’ll agree with this. We’ve done so many shows on how making any accommodation for any sort of whether it’s a physical mental, perceived, not perceived, right, hidden, a different ability, it actually benefits everyone. Absolutely. Right. So it’s not just oh, treat you special, because you might, you know, switch some numbers around, having that extra moment to take a pause and having your CEO be open to that and want that, right, that helps every single team member to think you know what, it’s okay, if I take an extra minute and check my work or whatever, right?

Pat Wadors 16:25
The The analogy I used a couple of years back, I was working at ServiceNow. And I was I was talking about this, and I’m like, Look, being different, makes us all stronger, makes us smarter. And if you think about ATA and accommodations in the ramp, you know, when that became a law for access, you know, businesses grumble, they’re like, it’s expensive. It’s this that and the other thing, what they did not anticipate was the parents with the stroller with the baby, the biker that takes his bike or her bike up into the ramp, the person that just got their knee replaced, needing to like shuffle up to the door and do it with safety. They, they opened up the aperture to so much care and access beyond what they thought was the targeted audience that they just grew stronger, and that I can spout example after example, to your point, Trish.

Trish 17:18
I think also your example is a good one. It’s not expensive. Not every accommodation. In fact, in all my years in HR, it was very rare that we had an expensive monetary accommodation. I mean, just having your boss asked you, what do you need? And you were like, I think I’m good. But I’ll let you know, I’ll let you know if something comes up. Right. So it’s not, it’s often not a monetary thing. It’s letting someone just in on hey, I might need that little bit of extra time. Or sometimes I get flustered. Don’t worry if I do it’s not, you know, yeah. Yeah, figuring it normalizes that, you know, I once had a CHR o of mine. When I was at BJC, healthcare, and he was so wise, very much like you and in terms of these experiences, right? And he was talking about if you have, say, a leader who comes in and cusses for the first five minutes every day. And if no one says anything to that person, it becomes like, well, that’s just him or her or right, like they’re, that’s just what they do. And like, it doesn’t like negatively impact every single person, if that’s just Well, they’ve got to come in and like do that thing. Not that that’s a right thing to do. But in other words, like, whatever your thing is, if you think it’s so bizarre or just not going to be understood, it’s probably not the case, I actually wrote down where you said, it’s not you, it’s me. And that goes for any relationship. Right? We are all solely focused on ourselves. Really, it? It really is about it’s us. It’s not you, it is me, right. So we don’t remember that though. Sometimes when we’re thinking about how others perceive us. So what do you think? I mean, we’ve talked about trust. But what are are there things? More specifically that if you feel like you’re a leader in a company where you don’t have that level of psychological safety? Are there some tips of like, what could that that leader, maybe start doing to encourage that type of a shift in there? Is it possible to introduce that into an organization that’s established?

Pat Wadors 19:35
Yes, absolutely. Every time you’ll hire a new leader, they’re gonna have to establish psychological safety. Every time I ramp up, I’m this odd thing, a threatening thing. You will see engagement fear, like someone new. So I’m gonna go through this uncertainty trough and then after some pattern recognition, maybe I come out to certainty and I feel okay, I can navigate Pat. I kind of know what she’s all about. And the purpose is And the goal for the leader is to make that trough shallow and shorter and duration. Right? Be aware that you create this anxiety moment for everybody. And that is so normal. And so what you do to create safety is like, look, I’m going to ramp up, I’m going to learn, I’m going to make mistakes, I’m gonna make assumptions that are wrong. I’m going to tell you right now, I’m going to be wrong. Your job is to politely nudge me Tell me when I’m wrong. So here’s how I like my feedback. I like it in a big group, and I’m really screwing up I’d like you to teach me really quick waters, like step that back and or raise your hand. So let me add a finer point to what Pat saying, and course correct me in the moment if it’s going to have an undue impact on the org. But here’s how I like to have feedback. Here’s how I want to be corrected.

Pat Wadors 20:46
And if I’m doing something, right, can you please tell me so I keep doing that thing? Because I’m, I’m trying to be my best self. So I’m both the positive and the constructive along the way, so I can course correct. Then I turn around and go, How do you like to get feedback, Trish? And what’s your what’s your goal? Like? Do you want to be a stager? Oh, do you want to be head basket weaver? Do you want to be a pottery maker, Steve. So my feedback will be on point. I won’t give Steve a basket weaving tips because he wants to be a pottery guy. So I’m gonna I’m gonna make sure I am indexing on my team. And then I give them permission to to give me feedback throughout the way and I definitely do it during the reviews. Right? If I’m if I’m going through like, What could I have done to make you better at your craft? More confident? Am I showing care and appreciation? My my blacks box is that I don’t celebrate enough. I am like, I do the checklist. It’s in my head. I’m an introvert. So I don’t celebrate enough. I know I don’t I ask people to help me. But if I’m not appreciating you, please tell me. Because what you do matters. And here’s why it matters. And I take time to tell you exactly what you do. And why think you’re so amazing. And they give me feedback. I just like you to you know, not only me, but my team, can you like we’re kind of hidden over here. We do the dailies, you know, you recognize all the big programs vote about me like it’s like you never celebrate payroll, you just get your paycheck? Well, I think I should celebrate payroll more. So I think every leader has an opportunity to go that safety.

Steve 22:24
Yeah, I think I think some of this definitely needs to happen even throughout the organization to right path, because I think lots especially once the organization achieves any type of scale, right, and you’re into hundreds of employees, 1000s of employees, 10s of 1000s of employees, right. Whereas we know that so much of the environment, and the culture is modeled and lived right by the senior leadership team. And those folks who people are all watching most employees day to day, right as with their frontline manager, or first level manager, right, or maybe, whatever that person may be, and there are certainly opportunities there Right? To help those people who have really, really tough jobs, I think, to also sort of help them and support them and give them the tools that they need to create the environment that we’d all like to like to be in as well. The last thing for me would be Are there any kinds of specific things you’ve either seen in your career or just you think about, Hey, these are the kinds of tools we can equip those managers right to be more empathetic to be a little bit more vulnerable themselves and encourage their folks as well.

Pat Wadors 23:36
Lots and lots are right there on the front line. And so they get someone in front of them, they’re modeling after and some of those people that are at fault they’re following may not have all the right skills either. So you might be what I call chasing the wrong rabbit. Like don’t chase that behavior that might be the wrong behavior. Let’s like open up your opportunities and your skill set. And so what I’ve learned over time is to teach the frontline leader to call it what it is like to break things down in very pragmatic terms, not fancy stuff. So your teams need to have clear conversation. Everyone your direct reports, you need to know where their compasses, you need to understand their values and their motivators. So you know, if you’re in conflict, so have an intentional meeting. So if you have one on ones, do you have one on ones? Yes. What’s the purpose of those one on ones? Is it for you to do operational stuff is there for you to take care of your employee? Let’s make sure you’re taking care of your employee in that agenda, call it out. So this is a career conversation one on one. This is a check in one on one, right? This is you giving me feedback, upward feedback one on one, because if you don’t then the employee walks away confused. They may not know is the correct conversation because you just had this real nice conversation how you doing? What are you learning? That’s great. I think I’m having this impactful conversation. That was nice. And we call it out really specific. It changes the tone of The meeting, it’s really amazing to watch these frontline mayors because I want that kind of conversation. And then they lean up and they go okay to my boss, I want to have that conversation, I aspire to be this, I want to learn that, you know, I, I crafted a spreadsheet, you know, a while back in my career, I call it Goldilocks spreadsheet. Because I needed a tool, the way my brain works, to allow me to have these conversations with my boss and my team. And it was like a simple spreadsheet, my values, my motivators, and your values sharpened as we age, like, you know, when you’re gonna walk away from a relationship with this values broken, right, you know, and the motivators can change on a dime. So if your health is at risk, your family service, you know, you’re gonna pivot, then you have your superpowers that you’re drawn on to use over and over again, people rely on you for and things you want to learn and experience. And I use that as a tool as a framework for me to talk up and out and down. And I want to I want to teach people how to have these conversations a very normal way.

Trish 25:58
That’s an example as a tool. One of the things Pat, I know, we didn’t plan on making this like a tech show specifically, but obviously, you work UKG Can you maybe just spend a minute or two and touch on sort of whet the appetite, if you will, of of the listeners? What are some of the ways that the software can actually support some of these activities that we’re talking about, right, having the check ins having having meaningful, impactful check ins, and I love the idea of like really calling out specifically what you’re there to talk about, but how can software help you if you’re not using it that way? Or if you’re not thinking of it that way?

Pat Wadors 26:34
Oh, my gosh, that’s so right now. So now you got me excited. So right now, and I was excited before, there is technology out there that allows you to, you know, navigate these conversations, your quarterly check in and here’s your template and how to have a conversation. So you can write your notes and get feedback and all that. I mean, you can put that part of your employee experience journey. But what if we unlocked AI machine learning just another level up? Right? What if it recognized that you and I, Trish haven’t had our one on ones consistently, and it nudged me as your manager? Because what I’ve been doing is canceling our one on ones because I so depend on you, you know, your craft. But I’ve been spending more time with Steve because I think he needs me more. If you’re interpreting that as not caring, not respecting you. And so the AI box and go, hey waters, looking at my calendar. And looking at our email, our network connection with Trish is weakening. You’re spending x amount of time with Steve but you know, Trish has XYZ, you know, goals in front of a couple my goal sheet for you. And it can give me a template it says hey, Trish, I realize I know we haven’t had a one on one. Where do you know, let’s schedule one. I’m excited to learn about what you’re doing on X, Y, and Z. And if you want more frequent time with me, please ask. So it prompts me to ask him getting enough of Pat, are you getting enough guidance from me? And they’ll tell me where I’m starting to lose traction? It can help me in recruiting? Gosh, can you imagine if it made me more human just to check in on the process. Like if you’re in university and I made you an you know, an offer that I won’t see for six months, it tells me you’re taking your finals, your tips on how to study and here’s your coupon to Domino’s Pizza. Be really cool.

Trish 28:19
Can we just pause on that one, Pat, because I have twins that are in college. Steve has a college student. I mean, I think that that is like that is something as a leader in your just in your day to day, you are not thinking about necessarily what those college kids are going through and to them. That future job with you is everything. They’re they’re hyper fixating on often right? So I got what a good suggestion? Honestly,

Pat Wadors 28:47
yeah, I get healthy tips. You know, me remember me, you care about me, gosh, I will not talk to any other company because you got me you care.

Steve 28:57
And that, you know, the one thing I would say too, and we can sort of think about some of this is it’s the importance of the folks who are building these tools, right, many of whom we know Trish and many of work at UKG definitely need to be having these kinds of conversations with people, leaders and leaders, right as they build and inform those decisions around development right? Because it’s important to make sure much like we’re talking about vulnerability, a little bit about empathy. It’s certainly important that the tools that we use right to help us are also have that built into their design their to their ethos, you know, not even something maybe you can see but it’s something you know, it’s there and people who are building the tools are thinking about them particularly around these important things around coaching and developing and expressing care and concern and checking in on people meaningfully. Right. It’s very important to to design for these things in mind.

Pat Wadors 29:54
Just think about your anniversary. You have a work anniversary. been with me for three years. If I may not pay attention, again, my checklist might be on other things. I have an AI buddy that tells me it’s the anniversary. It’d be great to one celebrate with the team. But to check in like, is this meet your goals? Right, like, right? Are you developing Lacerte? Let’s reflect back on your journey last three years? And where do you want the next three years to look like? Wow, someone did that with me? I’d be floored.

Trish 30:25
Yeah, yeah. Because I think we didn’t grow up in our careers with that, right? You just said something about an anniversary, I remember taking my job at St. Louis Children’s Hospital where they in orientation, they handed out an index card and you wrote down, like, what your favorite things are, like, favorite candy or favorite music? And then if they remembered an anniversary, you might get that thing, right, maybe, but it was on an index card somewhere. Right? So again, I think we’ve always had these desires to have that connection. And we probably need a whole separate show with you, Pat, honestly, to go through more of the tech side of it. Because I do think that’s the other side of the story, right is how it enables all these things. But, Steve, you and I have these conversations all the time with people where they’re so afraid about artificial intelligence, or generative AI more specifically, and how that’s going to now we’re back to you know, the robots are taking our jobs again, conversations reared its head, but the truth is, what you described, even briefly is is the way that having those nudges, through the technology actually empowers you to be more human with your team. Yeah, so yes, like, oh, yeah, I just feel like I would love for us to continue this conversation and really dig in, and maybe some specific examples of how technology can actually move the needle when it comes to that both both getting people in the door and making them feel special. And then continuing that conversation. You know, I love this. I could talk to you all day.

Steve 31:54
This has been fantastic stuff. Here’s a couple of things I want to say. And then we’ll let you go. Of course, we appreciate you taking the time to spend with us today. We’ll make sure folks know how to find you. And also we’ll link out to the the video of the Today Show Interview that sort of sparked this entire conversation. We’ll put that in the show notes as well. It’s really worth a watch. So Pat waters UK cheese. Thank you so much for spending a little bit of time with us. As Trish said let’s hope to get you back on the show. In the near future. We’ll talk some more about this stuff. But thank you so much for spending some time with us today.

Steve 32:25
Thank you This was fun. This was so awesome.

Steve 32:28
Great great stuff. So Trish, thank you for for leading the charge to get this show set up. I appreciate that.

Trish 32:36
Me having some coffee, you know, absolute minding my own business.

Steve 32:42
That’s right, everybody. Catch all the show archives at Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts and thanks so much for listening for our guests Pat Wadors, for Trish Steed. My name is Steve Boese. Thank you so much for listening. We will see you next time and bye for now.

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