Equity in Action: Affirmative Strategies, Self-Care, and Workplace Leadership

Hosted by

Sarah Morgan

CEO, Buzz A Rooney, LLC

About this episode

Inclusion Crusade 17 – Equity in Action: Affirmative Strategies, Self-Care, and Workplace Leadership

Host: Sarah Morgan

Guest: Charlie Pleasant, Licensed Clinical Social Worker & Founder/Executive clinician of The Healing Collaborative

Welcome back to the Inclusion Crusade, where I am on a mission to create workplaces where employees feel safe, seen and supported. One episode at a time.

This week we are discussing the impact of DEI programs in the workplace and the effects on employees.

– Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action

– Internalized oppression and self-care for activists

– Black excellence and its complexities

– Diversity, inclusion, and employee recognition

– Leadership and fear-based decision-making



Thank you for listening! Remember to subscribe on your favorite podcast app!

Transcript follows:

Sarah Morgan 0:15
Hello, and welcome to the HR Happy Hour Inclusion Crusade. I’m your host, Sarah Morgan. And we are committed to making workplaces more inclusive, one episode at a time. So I am back in the chair, and talking to our wonderful expert in residence, Charlie Pleasant. Thank you for being with us still and helping us to really not just navigate these inclusion conversations from a high level of do’s and don’ts, but also helping our listeners to gain understanding about what happens inside the psyche and the physical being of people going through these experiences. And I just appreciate you so much for continuing to be willing to give voice to that on this platform, because we talk so much about the importance of employee well being the importance of employee mental health, but then we can still make choices that are not in the best interest of those things. And so I think it’s wonderful, that we have you and that the HR Happy Hour Network has you to be able to provide that guidance for our listeners. So thank you for continuing.

Charlie Pleasant 1:51
Thank you for having me. Love to be here.

Sarah Morgan 1:54
Yes, absolutely. So here we are, as we are recording, this is the end of February 2024. We are just a few days away from the start of March. And it is what I have come to call history season. For me. It starts for me, like with Martin Luther King Day, like from that moment on until usually, the end of March, I am in my power to the black people bag and my you know, power to women bag, during those times. So we are on the cusp of kind of the shift in the season. And I wanted us to have some conversation about this, because we’ve talked a lot about the ways that dei is under attack. Yes. Within our country right now what we’re seeing going on in the States, what we’ve seen happen with the Supreme Court earlier this year, we know all signs are pointing to the fact that this ruling from the Supreme Court regarding dei in selection for admissions to universities, combined with many of the state level education saying we’re removing DEI, from the curriculum, we are limiting access to certain reading materials that we you know, deem controversial about moments in our history. All of that is going to make its way into the workplace even sooner rather than later.

Charlie Pleasant 3:44
And I have to go back and familiarize myself with the recent Supreme Court ruling around the college admissions. I really thought that this was a 1996 issue that initially started in Washington State. It made his way to Michigan. We saw this this criteria taking place where you can’t utilize race as a part of the criteria in order to get into colleges and universities. And I couldn’t be wrong. Yeah.

Sarah Morgan 4:14
So the most recent ruling was in the summer of this year, and then we’ll come back and find it. The Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action that the programs at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill and Harvard were violating the Constitution Equal Protection Clause, which bars racial discrimination in government entities. And so basically their case was saying that even if if you are a private institution a private educational institution receiving government funds? You cannot use race as a factor in the decision which took the it’s 2003 decision that was our girlfriends. Abby Bollinger at the University of Michigan Law School. Right.

Charlie Pleasant 5:30
Before then it was in California. And that was the ruling that happened a little bit over 30 years ago. Yeah, yeah. So it’s really focused around the cars they went, they go all the way back in this particular article to Sandra Day, O’Connor’s comments in the the ruling from the 90s. And, of course, in this particular ruling, Justices Sotomayor, Elena Kagan, and katachi projects and dissented showing others were in favor of that. And I think that’s going to be what the court is, how its structured and where it’s going to lay. So we’re back to something that’s a 30 year old issue that’s still being moved on. Present day. So now, it’s even if you’re a private institutions that accept federal funds,

Sarah Morgan 6:22
if you accept federal funding, then you cannot have this and it’s only a matter of time before it turns into if you’re except now, the states are jumping on the the state is not going to provide you with funding. If you some of the states, the states are jumping on the we’re not going to provide you with funding if if dei is a part of your education or a part of your strategy. Right. Right. And that feel that that is also in violation of what came out of the Supreme Court ruling went and eventually that’s going to get challenged, and we’ll probably find his way to the court. And should the court rule in favor of that? Again, DEI programs that we’re seeing in corporate entities are will will quickly face the same face the same fate and scrutiny. So that’s worrisome, right? For those of us who work in this space for those of us who are committed to this work, and for those of us whose lives and live, you know, our lives and our ability to thrive in the work that we do is contingent upon our employers, making sure that their populations are educated in the ways of inclusion. Yes, it’s a scary proposition. And for you and I, we fall into all three of those buckets, right? Like, not only is this the work that we do, not only is this very something that’s very important to us as individuals, but rollbacks in these areas, the stopping the progress in these areas will directly have impact on us as humans, because of the identities that we possess. And that is a scary and unacceptable thing. To me, as I look out over the horizon, and I’m constantly asking myself, How do I increase my activism to be able to have some measure of impact in the direction of it? And I don’t know what that answer is yet.

Charlie Pleasant 8:56
Second, strike on that a little bit. Yeah, go ahead. Because I know I know what you’re doing. I don’t know all what you do, what I’m fairly familiar with your work the spaces that you move in, how long have you been championing just DEI inclusion. And then, of course, by virtue of us have already that’s just a mission and a charge of what our work is in our organization. I want to challenge that of that thought process of how much more I can do, because it doesn’t mean that we let up. But what it does, what it does indicate to me, and I think across any spectrum, where there’s advocacy needed for inclusion for people to stop being pushed into the margins, and be more centralized and centered, is that it’s going to take more than just those who are already here. So that I feel like that becomes the mental and emotional where they all that happens. What more can I do? What more can I do? What more can I do? Yeah, where a lot of what’s being done as far as legislation policies, racism, all of that requires the entrance of people are part of our of our, our culture and community that has to begin to participate in this conversation as well, too.

Sarah Morgan 10:16
Right? Yeah, you’re right. You’re, you’re actually very, very right about that, because I didn’t think about it that way before. But I agree, as I heard you say it. It can’t all be on me. Like, I have to entertain the idea and allow space for the notion that I’m already doing enough. I’m already doing my fair share. And so me doing more, or me doing different, may not be the answer. And I even have to challenge myself further and say, the idea that I have to do more, is a form of like, internalizing the oppression that we suffer, right? Like this is this idea that somehow I carry this on my back, and I have a greater responsibility than anyone else. And if, if our liberation, if getting all of that off our back is a part of the goal of the work that we do, then we have to challenge ourselves in those notions as well. So thank you for that.

Charlie Pleasant 11:36
No, no problem. I thought about that a great deal when Congressman John Lewis passed away a few years back, who’s had a very documented and well storied history and civil rights and in equality and justice. And I think about the John Lewis’s of the world, or the Sherman chasms of the world, of those who those that are moving in spaces of activism. I don’t want to be misconstrued that I don’t believe that self actualization could happen. But in a larger sense, oftentimes wonder what could have been realized in the life of the pioneers who’ve gone on before us? Have this not been their fun?

Sarah Morgan 12:25
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Yeah. Like no one else. What else could they have gone on? To do?

Charlie Pleasant 12:36
And I understand. I mean, it’s a great testament to a life of service and well lit. Sure. For sure. When did you not, you know, and I’m not making light of it of anything. If I didn’t have to be in this place of fighting for equality and justice at every corner. What else might go somewhere and just want to knit blankets for the rest of my life? You understand what I’m saying? Like something that is? Oftentimes wonder what parts of us you know, I’m an ifs therapist. For those who might not know me, my name is Charlie. I’m an internal family systems therapist, and I deal specifically with parts in my therapy work. And oftentimes wonder when our systems become burdened with things, what parts in us become exile in order to handle the other thing? Yeah. So I think about that in the panniers who are still with us and that have gone on is that what did they have to put on the shelf? What parts of them did they have to put on the shelf? To make this to push and advance not only black culture not only women culture, but just culture period at the expense of the parts that had to be shelved when it’s out and kind of sofa there’s and then I look at that like in two parts as you say that I love that you said the part about like, what I just be somewhere knit in a blanket, right because I am obsessed with these wobbles.

Sarah Morgan 14:13
So is basically like knitting of little like stuffed animals, but they come in a kit. And some of they might be a character from Harry Potter. It could be a character from one of your favorite cartoons. It could be a character like I saw one for the Smurfs. I’ve seen a couple of I’ve obviously seen the Harry Potter ones I’ve seen the ones like Pikachu and all of the in poke all the like pokey mon characters. I want to knit a Squirtle okay, but I can’t knit a Squirtle because I have to prepare myself to travel to this client site to do this exercise with them so we can define their equity strategy. So that time that I could be knitting the Squirtle is got to be put on the shelf, because I gotta do this work over here. Right? So that’s the one thing. And one of the other thing is that I think about is, if I didn’t have to keep going from organization to organization to help them define their equity strategy, or, or train them on how not to micro aggress each other, or how to be a more effective bystander, any of those spectrum of things. What else could I be talking about? Right? Like, what other work could I be doing? So it’s the rest that I gain when I don’t have to engage in this heavy work.

Charlie Pleasant 16:02
Work is so important shout out to the nap ministry shout out to her just in being able to give us a pathway. And I know she’s not the first. She’s, you know, she’s walked on blaze trails as well, too. But that’s why I found her work so important, because it’s yeah, it’s just on the surface of going to sleep. Never going to sleep is a large part of that. But, you know, I mean, it’s not the largest part of that, but it’s to what you’re saying is they’re asked and the job why go back and reclaim the things that I’ve had to put on the show.

Sarah Morgan 16:38
And this idea of like, having hobbies and things that you do for the sheer joy of them that you don’t monetize? Right? Like we know you’re lying sister shout out to mica cheeks. But I remember early on when she first started doing this more, and I’ll dare I say commercially, because it was never really about commercial being like a baker for her. It was really about I love to bake. I want to share this with people. She wasn’t someone to pay me for. And people want to pay me for this. So I’m going to allow that I was never about Mika wants to start a bakery. Mika wants to go on Food Network. It wasn’t about that. But this pressure that we have to monetize everything that we’re good at, right? And just learning to reject that notion and do things for the joy of doing them. And sometimes you do it and you’re not even good at it. And for me, like those are my favorite things to be able to do. This is why I use it. We don’t have it at our why anymore. But we had a hip hop, dance aerobics class, I was in there faithfully. Okay. And you know, because you know me for 20 plus years, I can perform choreography, but I am not a dancer. Right. So those are their two different things like I I’m coordinated enough to perform the choreography. And with practice, I will do so with gusto. But I am not a natural like dancer and move. But I was in hip hop aerobics class faithfully on my boom CAC eight count for my life. And I know I looked crazy. And it didn’t matter because I was just in it for the joy of being able to be in it. That’s right. And that’s fine. That’s what I love about Trisha is work is this idea that you can do things for the joy of just doing them. And that includes rest. That and being intentional about taking, taking rest, unplugging, recharging, and recognizing that that is just as much a part of our ancestors wildest dreams as any achievement. There’s another like movement that I see. And I can’t attribute it to any one person. But how we always talk about black excellence. And women have to you know, do this black women save the world? You know, and, and all of that. So like, what if I just like what if I just want to be in the middle? You know what I’m saying? Like, what if I don’t want to be magical? What if my, what if I’m on my Leviosa instead of Leviosa? You know, like, what if I am like what if that’s what I’m doing? But that’d be okay.

Charlie Pleasant 19:57
I was working with the tech company last year, delivering this very message. And I stand on it, y’all can fight me on it. Black excellence will kill us. I understand on its face, what that means to be to be black to be in excellence of doing what you’re going to do. And what’s not talked about a lot of times when the end product is put out there to be seen and to be celebrated is everything that took place in the background. We don’t talk about the stress of what it means to engage in order to be labeled black, excellent. And the term and the term in and of itself, is so subjective, that the goalposts can be moved at any point. Your excellence might not be my excellence that you’re asked that excellence might not be the next person’s excellence. So it’s always a moving goalposts, where there’s no place to land. So and it feels like one of those words, or one of those concepts, even though I understand it, y’all, I truly do understand it. And I feel like it’s one of those words, that that plays into the excavating of black talent, black resources for the production of a capitalist system.

Sarah Morgan 21:29
And we have to really interrogate anything that we do that to your point is at excavating mining, through our talent, stealing those resources to fund the capitalistic structures that were designed to exclude us and keep us oppressed. So we have to be super mindful, super intentional about how we work in a way so that we’re not doing so in a way that feeds that. And to some extent, you can’t help it because we live, the capitalism is in America, and then most of it most advanced nations where people will be listening to us, right? That’s the name of the game. And it’s not going anywhere, anytime soon, because the story that’s been told for so long is that it is the only way. And we can’t even remember another way. Right? So I get slowly started never a member.

Charlie Pleasant 22:46
I honestly believe that we’re slowly starting to remember a different way. I’ve been really invested in in the returning of returning people to land, and to nature and homesteading and finding community and building community in that way. But just to your point of being mindful of how we work with a with a term, like black excellence, it invites me to ask anyone who says, and again, this is not a judgment of anyone who subscribes to it. But I want to understand why you work, because one of the things that I talk to my clients about a great deal, as far as maladaptive coping strategies is in achievement. Yeah. And the reason why one of those called that coping strategy flies under the radar is because it’s rewarded. So when we think about like in the clinical world, when I’m thinking about malade, when most people hear about, like just coping strategies and different negative coping strategies, multigrain use a maladaptive coping strict negative coping strategies, they might be thinking drugs, you know, sex, alcohol, like all of the things that we’ve kind of demoralized and, you know, kind of put in its own kind of polarization. But when it comes to the overachieving then at the acquisition of accolades, the ongoing pursuit of degrees I’m curious moreso about your house. I’m curious about your why.

Charlie Pleasant 24:21
I’m curious about your why. And if and it’s hard to see it as a possible maladaptive strategy because it’s so wildly and greatly rewarded. It’s another reason why I have an issue with an again, I’m I’m really giving to my bag on on on how I sent her my work and how I pivot my work when I’m working with my clients is the over at the end of the day, all moms should be celebrated, mothering and Parenting is hard. And doing it as a single parent is equally as difficult. And I struggle with the way that it’s celebrated.It calls forward all the things that the person has had to do in order to keep a family intact in order to provide in order to make sure that the family unit is moving forward. And it does not interrogate why are you in that position in the first place. And so and so, when when we go, and we talk about the strength of all of these things, there’s another part of that conversation that goes unexamined.

Sarah Morgan 25:29
You are preaching to the choir in both of those regards as a recovering perfectionist. And as a woman who was once upon a time of single mom for years before I remarried. You’re right, you have to interrogate the why. Why am I and what I found through therapy is that it was, I was seeking achievement to fill something in me that was missing, you know, the messages that I received as a child that said, I was only lovable when I was well behaved and achieving.

Charlie Pleasant 26:12
That’s, that’s it. So when we talk about black history, and Women’s History Month, in the context of all of this, just in this particular conversation, and I’m sure we can probably talk about it at a later time is the transactional nature that’s always been put on black female bodies, that our value has always been collectively in this country on these shores, wrapped in what we can do, equates how valuable we are. So we get that messaging very early to completely disconnect, from the essence of who we really are to go serve a system? And how do we begin to rein that back in, but again, that could be a conversation for a different time.

Sarah Morgan 27:00
So tell me, what is your advice to organizations who are trying to make a decision about the best way for us to celebrate and honor the achievements of African Americans of women during this season? What do they need to look out for? What do they need to avoid? What’s what is the important thing for them to know and learn?

Charlie Pleasant 27:40
I think, as I see an overall makeup practice outside of the month of February and March, there’s innovation that’s happening 365, right? Yeah, make that a practice. And as you’re getting to maybe Black History Month, or Women’s History Month, or pride month, or any of these other spaces, then you can begin to kind of narrow the focus to talk specifically about the contributions of the of these communities. It doesn’t mean that during those particular months are just specific for those communities. But make it a practice all year round, that this is something that we value here. That that is the that is the the message that’s being seen by your employees or your associates, that this is valued all yours all year round. Again, it doesn’t mean that the rest of the year is dedicated to those non PC PLC populations, right? You still celebrate that all year round. But also have an understanding that specifically because we do have these traditions of Black History Month and Women’s History Month, that we’re going to give specific focus and highlighting the contributions of people, whatever corporation that you’re in the contributions of their populations. What they’ve made to the line of work that you do. That will that will probably be my biggest piece of advice is that let it be seen all year round? Let it be seen all year round? Because one of the big things that that’s really important for employees is visibility. And being seen and and not just support employees or associates, that’s a that’s a coordinate that we have as human beings is to be acknowledged and to be seen and to to know that somebody actually sees you here and the contributions that you’re making to this space as well, too.

Sarah Morgan 29:52
There’s never a bad time for employee recognition. And when people often ask like how much employee recognition is too much? And it’s like, well let you know when you get there. Because because we have not hit that precipice just yet. So I definitely agree with you, I think the importance of making sure that these sorts of acknowledgments and celebrations are happening all year round is key, because then it’s not strange to anyone. When you focus in on a particular group or community, whether it’s Black History Month, Women’s History Month, has Hispanic and Latino heritage month, five month Asian American Pacific Islander. Yeah. Yeah. Indigenous peoples month, like whatever it is. You’re not running into the issue of what about me? And my contributions, why aren’t we talking about, you know, XYZ thing, when you are being intentional about celebrating the richness of our history and the people who have contributed to that all year round, then you don’t, there’s no need for anyone to be upset, jealous, whatever. When it comes time to focus in on one particular group over another, the research show, the research is very clear is that diversity drives ingenuity and innovation. Yes, it’s, it’s right there for you to know that. I’m going to want to be here. If I can really get in that give a sense visibly, everything. That’s why performative acts don’t necessarily work because it’s only visually stimulating.

Charlie Pleasant 31:49
And it doesn’t, it’s not a proper review, in the sense that it’s a felt sense. If I can get a felt sense that I’m deeply valued, where I am unlikely to go really harmful. I’m like, if I feel like I’m in partnership, I’m in community, and I can really get a deep felt sense not. But a deep felt sense that I’m valued and appreciated, you’re going to get the very best of what I have to offer. For sure. On the flip side, if I feel like I’m that value, or appreciated, or not seen, and I’m only being paid recognition in a visual sense. I’m going to call that for what that is. And I’m likely to give you the bare minimum. Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Morgan 32:41
And, and so don’t know that organizations understand that, right. And that’s that desire for colorblindness that, that grates at my soul, is because what we’re failing to understand is that people want all the aspects of their identity, to be acknowledged, and to be welcomed into the spaces. And when that doesn’t happen. And I feel like I have to shut a piece of me off, in order to be be here, be here and feel safe in this environment, then I’m also shutting off a part of me that could be contributing, because there’s a piece of my brain that is now dedicated to suppressing something that is natural and innate to me, that cannot be tapped into for creativity, productivity, and all of the things that go along with that, and that, to me is the biggest piece that we continue to miss because it’s so simple. Like I tell organizations all the time, focus on inclusion, first, get people to recognize, celebrate, and welcome each other’s differences. I love walking into organizations, logging on to trainings for organizations and seeing people on screen that is just as as close to the rainbow of appearance as as possible. And yet, and then watching these individuals engage with one another in the chat in various ways. Like though that’s what I love to see because that’s a high, that’s usually indicative of a high level of inner feelings of inclusion. And when you can cultivate that for various people, then you now are seeing the full human and it becomes much easier to engage in conversations about equity, and it becomes safer to add more diversity into this space because the field the welcoming feelings are already there. And if I really tell organizations like no matter where your political stance on DEI may lie within your organization, making sure that you keep inclusion at the heart of the culture that you’re trying to build should really be a non negotiable. Like, and I can’t even understand, I can understand like, I understand know why. But it is so silly to me the way that we have tried to turn this and weaponize it as as something that is a bad thing, like saying, you know, the whole dei must die. Like, we really are saying inclusion must die like that we really, we dest? That’s how we live in like, are we really doing this? Are we really saying that equity must die?

Charlie Pleasant 36:08
I think it’s really about the equity was that I heard you mentioned that the Focus on Inclusion, and I take a slightly different stance on that is just on that perspective. For me, it’s the inclusion and equity both happening at the same time. I feel that once you get once you make the commitment to diversity, and you make the commitment to inclusion, as far as having people in your organizations that are qualified to do the work that your organization produces, the equity and access to different things in the organization has to be on the table at the same time. Yeah, like I think both of those things go at the same at the same time. Because if not, then I’m here just for face presentation for it to be counted in representation of visual representation. If I don’t have access to coaching, or access to mentorship, or access to higher level leadership that can help me chart my career paths here in this organization, whereas I might see someone else that might not be a part of the stuff that has access to those things. Then I’m strictly as a fitting. Right, right. So I feel like those things are having to have fun at the same time.

Sarah Morgan 37:26
Yeah, I agree. And when I talk to organizations a lot about that, but when I’m working, when we’re priming, equity is definitely in the conversation. Because it’s important to me, as to your point as early and upfront, as possible in this relationship between me and this client to understand their commitment to equity, because to your point, inclusion, and diversity, like I say, you know, inclusion feels good, diversity looks good. Equity is good, you know, people are fine, to feel good and look good, but be a mess all up under just beneath the surface. And I want to make sure that that organizations understand that the be good is, is the goal. The be good is is the thing that really matters. That’s where the rubber meets the road in the traction begins. And so in working with executive teams, and priming the organization and setting starting to those conversations of like, what are the goals here, centering that on equity, I agree, is really important. When we dive into the more outward facing work with the employee populations at large is where I really try to focus in on inclusion because you can’t get to equity without inclusion when people because people don’t see each other’s humanity, full humanity without that. And so then you’re you’re fighting as much as the desire and maybe there you are fighting people’s conditioning and instincts and it’s a battle that you’re not likely to win.

Charlie Pleasant 39:31
And I think that I’ve been given a great deal of thought around. Outside of just doing therapy work is also including executive leadership coaching from an ifs lens, because to your point of fighting condition, condition. I’m really curious about what’s happening within your internal landscape that makes the implementation of DEI, a challenge for your organization because there’s something in my mind in how I work. I’m really curious about what messages you get about other cultures that are not white, because primarily, these are white dominated spaces that we’re different in and out of. I’m really curious about messages around that are really specific or interested, or curious about messaging around conflict. Where parts of you become activated. When you think about inclusion, Is there fear around the reaction from others in your organization? If you’re trying to make a declaration to be more equitable and more inclusive in your environment? Is there any system activation that happens the moment someone pushes back against that? I’m really curious about what messaging you got around communication. I’m really curious about the messaging that might have come up around just other cultures, because there’s a lot of there’s a lot of cultural burdens that groups carry as well, too, that that becomes internalized. And then that’s the that’s the, the behavior that we see happen outwardly, as well, too. So I will I have really, really strong been thinking about doing some work with executive leadership from an ifs lens, because I want to know what’s happening.

Sarah Morgan 41:26
I think that that is wonderful. And I hope that some of the folks who are listening will tap into you for that type of work, because I don’t know, I think we’re, we’re still slow to realize the ways that the two of those really intersect and how interwoven they are, and how much the ways that the ways of being and behaving and thinking that we were, conditioned, indoctrinated into, in our formative years, through our families, through our education, and so forth, continues to replicate and show up in our work labs. I have said before, that we have this crazy notion that people can really be complete, jerk mongers outside of the building, but they log on, if you know from their remote location, or they badge into the building and go inside, and that they somehow become a different human. Yeah. And they don’t. And they don’t, and they they terrorize and traumatize people in the process, especially when, through whatever mechanism people like that ends up in leadership roles. Yeah. And they’re holding these views about people of color, about women, about our brothers and sisters in the LGBTQ plus community, that the disabled, the neurodivergent, like their hold, they are holding these views, and they may not be outwardly expressing negativity, but it’s showing up in the discomfort that’s displayed in the interactions, it’s showing up in the ways that they speak to one person versus another. And those micro aggressions are felt and internalized by those people who then leave your building, log out of, of your system, and go into a world that compounds what it is that they’re facing inside of there. And the trauma, that that builds within a human over time. So I applaud you for for doing that work and for trying to work with executives, to make that connection, and to then break this cycle. So that there is because self the self awareness, like that’s the thing that separates us from animals. I say this all the time, like the thing that separates from animals is our ability to think about our thoughts and make choices like animals are all instinctual, whatever, they, whatever comes into their head to do they just do it constantly. They don’t understand consequence. You know, they understand reaction, but they don’t really understand consequence. We as humans, you know, we have higher level thinking to be able to really examine what is going on with me like why where did this thought come from? Do I really believe this? Oh, no, I don’t. Okay, well, what do I believe okay, I believe this like, we have the ability to have all of that going on in our brain. And so many of us are just wasting it because of fear of what we’re going to find if we start to peel that onion back. And I think it’s it, I think the state of our world really requires us to be less afraid of and, and so looking at it from an ifs lens, then that would let me know immediately that there’s a part or one within you.

Charlie Pleasant 45:28
That’s leading with fear. And so let’s talk about the one who leads with fear, and how that fits in with that, and what that does even what it does. We’re not going to talk about how it impacts the environment quite yet. If there’s one within that leads with fear. I’m very curious about the experience of that one that feels like it needs to lead in that way. What are some of the concerns and fears that it might have? If it doesn’t lead with fear? Yeah. So the executive culture that I’m talking about has, has not I don’t want to say has less to do with the external environment. But the more that you begin to balance brand hormones, like poverty and balance to your internal system, it’s going to reflect out here. Yeah, that’s just going to happen. It’s a natural byproduct of going inward and working with those parts that are leading. So my first question for anyone in leadership, this is this will be your first crash course. And ifs coaching for executive leaders. Are you aware of the one or the ones that lead? Are you aware of them? Who are they? When you walk into your building, or when you walk in when you log on? Are you aware of the ones that show up with? Yeah, if you aren’t, let’s talk about let’s identify, I want to know who’s all in the room when you walk in as well, too. If you don’t have an insight on that, then it’s just going to be this. It comes from a place of this is just who I am.

Charlie Pleasant 46:56
And that’s that’s an easy, that’s an easy default. Yeah, no, that’s not just who you are. That’s just the part that you lead with. Yeah. So let’s get to know this part a little bit more, or this one within a little bit more.

Sarah Morgan 47:10
And let’s see what else is in there. And let’s see what else is here could be making space for Yes, indeed.

Charlie Pleasant 47:17
So the more that we can begin to work with those ones within that might be not wanting to intentionally cause impact or chaos in an environment, but it is doing nonetheless, the more that you continue to work with those ones, the more you can continue to extra ones to soften a bit. So the true core leader of who you are, can come forward that doesn’t need to lead with fear that doesn’t need to lead with anger. That doesn’t need to lead with microaggressions or doesn’t need to lead with minimalizing all the stuff that we see that happens to associates employees in business environments true that that’s my homework for the leaders that are listening and tuning in.

Sarah Morgan 47:59
Yeah, belongs with me. That is Yeah, and that is some good homework. I’m gonna I’m gonna do some of that homework, my own self. So and that is today’s episode. I want to thank Charlie for being with us again for being our expert and residents for guiding us through these difficult conversations surrounding inclusion and equity in the workplace so that we become better leaders, better co workers better humans. And I want to thank you for listening once again to the Inclusion Crusade on the HR Happy Hour, right now in its fourth season. Can you believe it? And we will see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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